saschaw

To make it faster I won't wait for answers, here's #2, a Bavarian officer, seems to be from about or shortly before 1870. He wears two decorations, the first one maybe a Bavarian 1849 (or 1866?) cross, with the second one I hope again for a Baden 1849 medal. Yes you're right, I'm loving pictures of those ...

Dear Gentlemen, I'm starting this thread to show some photos of persons with orders and decorations that I cannot recognize. It was very kind if you could help me with the decorations: some may be really hard to get, but some just for me?! I'm actually not too bad in this issue, but _we_ are so much better doing this together. I hope you like my pictures, and I hope there's much Baden stuff on those I couldn't make out for sure ... #1 is a W?rttemberg veteran from about 1870 to 1875 with a 3 place medal bar of awards that should predate 1870. The quality of the picture isn't best, but I'd say the decoration in the middle is a W?rttemberg long service award, the last one seems to be a Baden Ged?chtnismedaille 1849. The first one should be a W?rttemberg medal, but I'm not sure what exactly. Someone might know better, so then he please tell me ...

These is the rest that I got: W?rttemberg Crown order grand cross sash piece, a Godet button but I don't know what for, a Hessian 1866 "ribbon bar" without bar and some more old ribbons, e.g. for a Frankfurt Kreuz 1813. Last year, I bought the same 1866 bar from Mr. Winkler, now with a nice old brass bar, not to be compared with the eCrap this thread started with - will show it later.

I did it, I destroyed this "great bar" and now have a lose but damaged ribbon ... oooh I'm not sure where those ribbons came from, but I found this picture in my database, with almost the same but three instead of four ribbons. It came with a part of Baden house order's ribbon - the wide one for the grand cross, not the 1849 medal ribbon! May they be from the same guy, so a Baden grand cross on my former ribbon "bar"? As the other awards are Befreiungskriege era I actually wondered about the 1849 medal, but the House order would make more sense. The ribbons on this picture were offered by an eBay seller in Germany who claimed the stuff to be from a Hessian castle's attic - I don't doubt this, with this ribbons! He wasn't allowed to tell me the family's name, and unfortunally, I missed this auction ... but won some others.

Compare them to real ones, you should find some here in GMIC using the forum search. These offered fakes are all of the same kind, with very shrap details. "HeikoGrusdat" is more aware of those than I am, I'm sure he can explain it better.

"sterog62" has a lot of battle clasps, and they all look the same. Interresting - as interresting as the other stuff he's offering, again and again ...

Ah, okay. I thought both had to be on the right side ...

Yes sure, that's the Kaiser - wearing a "Verdienstkreuz f?r Kriegshilfe" ... The star below the Black Eagle order-Kleindekoration seems to be the Hohenzollern house order .... but shouldn't this star be on the other breast? Oh Kaiser, didn't you know ...

I never saw this Godet-Werner tag before but like neither the bar itself nor the MVK1aX. I'd say: eCrap, once again ...

And the reverse before I fixed the EK. As this is with an old ribbon which is sewn and I didn't want to change this it still has its ribbon. One doesn't see it from the front, so it doesn't bother ...

Noone with any thoughts on this brilliant theory? I wasn't my idea but I think this does make sense - it apparently cannot be a Prussian's so has to be something elses. In the meantime I bought a nice Iron Cross from 1870 war and a less nice cheap cast fake of worst quality of the oakleaves to it - as a substitute untill I get a nice one for a fair price. I hope you like the bar and pictures - I absolutely do.

For a Baden NCO with this and the Baden medal - yes. =)

Nono, it may be a "frack bar" in common mounting, those are unusual but exist. I'm talking about precedence. This is not the right precedence for a Baden NCO, the 1902 and 1897 medals should be the other way round. Here it's just the wrong place for the long service medals. Maybe he remembered where they used to be before 1913 - he had back then a DA-Schnalle, for sure! Those were on last position, weren't they ... ?

This is _not_ a frack bar. It seems to be an elderly NCO from Baden who thinks his Erinnerungsmedaillen 1902 and 1897 are better than his two long service decorations. Are these two long service awards? I cannot recognize the 3rd award but think he wears Baden's long service decorations IInd and IIIrd class. If it was a "proper" frack bar in strange mounting the two Erinnerungsmedaillen should be the other way around - for an NCO! Promoted to officer they would change, but he's (still) a Baden NCO, on _his_ bar the 1902 outranks the 1897 medal. Take a close look at bars with both: Baden officers wear the Prussian medal first as they were "royal Prussian officers" and the Baden medal was an "foreign award" - stupid Milit?rkonvention 1871! No, it would NOT, as I wrote above. Your posting wasn't done when I wrot mine, sorry ...

Hum ... at least not too pity about the former bar which was in my humble opinion worst crap, as well. But now, it will really cost much money to a collector who doesn't know.

He called me just now as he wanted to send me the better pictures I asked for via eMail, but my office was full. He sounded actually nice and I was the same, as I wasn't in a mood to argue. I was a little unsure and worried when my mother came in with the phone and said 'it's for you, a Mr. Uhrig' ... I'll receive better pictures of the Baden bar, yeah! Please don't bid, then I have the chance to get it cheaper ...

Fraud? How can it be fraud to refill an empty bar? I'm doing this too, sometimes. It's nearly impossible to prove he's aware to take fakes for it - that's the problem ... Do you remember this bar? I never liked it, to me it's a fake ... may be fraud, who knows ... it's not an old bar, that for sure ... But _now_ it's fraud, apparently. I never saw something like this before ... Please take a look at this club eCrap ... Edit: after taking a closer look on both I'm not sure anymore if this is (was) the same bar and got "upgradet". There's much similarity but the awards and ribbons may be not the same. Though, the bar itself looks enlarged. I don't know but actually I don't mind too much if those are the same - they're both bad, and this is a fact.

And thanks to you! That's the first one I've ever seen in wear and reminds me that I promised to make good scans of my devices for your ribbon bar article ... but you're not working on this at the moment, so not a too big problem, I hope - will make good pictures and post them anywhere in GMIC where you find them ...

Hmm, in the OEK Noisseville is not ratet very high so I'd wonder if it was one of the rarer ones ... Micha, I though you like finest quality and condition, but now what's this?

*hrhrhrhr* not possible at the moment, but some months ... I hope so ... I've got just ONE Besitzzeugnis, which is dated "8. November 1918". Actually he wrote "1919" but retiped it to "1918" - this is the last day for Baden awards from what I know, and the guy is _not_ listet in Roth! q.e.d. I'll go there, one day ... I'm yet too young to be one of THOSE guys ...

Am I right about the photo being from about 1936? So this cross is supposed to be younger, as he still wears his old one ...

Thanks for all that information. The documents got lost at end of WWI so noone knows when the Z?hringer cross was awarded - maybe a late 1918 one, that cannot be listed in Roth?! Don't you believe or are you just wondering? The ribbon bar is typical 1950s or 60s and why shouldn't he have worn his WWII awards ... I wonder, too there is absolutely nothing, but though, this seems true and right ... I have his two EK I, too. One seems to be the heavily worn awarded example (the cross still worn on the ca. 1936 photo!) and the other one is from 2nd world war, purchased apparenly as his old one didn't look nice anymore ...

If you've got some more details you can send them to me via PM, too - or post it here, thanks.

No idea if he did anything in WW II, it doesn't look like ... Which of those lists? At least one seems to be incomplete, yes. The documents are lost, but ...

Born in 1883 he ended up as a Fregattenkapit?n in 1945 ...