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Everything posted by saschaw
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That's odd. In the meantime I came to know the medal bar came from the same collector I have my ribbon bar from. A small world, as I said. I guess I swap the ribbon bar for another one, for a small reunification. Thanks for your tries, Rick. The BZ3bX is replaced, I came to know. He did not mention the medal, but I'll ask... Is there a published list of BZ4? Or do you mean BZ4M?
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Finally, and not by me, the bar got "killed". The ribbons re-appeared on eBay.de, while the empty bar most likely will be recycled. With this seller, I have no doubts it will happen. He formally used the name "hagekna41", and now is "agle42"... and to say it again, the bar was a funny put-together. No problems about killing it. Just to show how small world is. http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIt...em=320377814602
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It's a small world in the end, isn't it? This one came up today in a German forum, and I realized we were a bit wrong. That's why ribbon bar questions sometimes just cannot be answered! I looked through the very nice Hohenzollern volume but could not find him immediately... Now anyone who can find him? The medal bar owner would be very glad too.
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I finally found closer information on MVKs 3rd modell in Orden-Militaria-Magazin #41, June 1991. On peace time ribbon, there were awarded up to August 1914: MVK 1st class with the crown: 6 MVK 1st class: 9 MVK 2nd class with the crown: 39 MVK 2nd class: 59 MVK 3rd class with the crown: 6 MVK 3rd class: none (sic!) Oddly, there were three more awarded in war time on peace time ribbon: MVK 1st class: 2 MVK 2nd class with the crown: 1 And, what I never had heard of before, Beamte did get the crosses without swords on "Kriegsverdienst" ribbon (but that was the so-called "Beamtenband"!) between August 1914 and July 26th 1915. This adds: MVK 1st class with the crown: 26 MVK 1st class: 367 MVK 2nd class with the crown: 475 MVK 2nd class: 177 MVK 3rd class with the crown: 71 MVK 3rd class: 24. With decree from 26th july 1915, those Beamte were entitled to get swords for their crosses, and we can assume most did get these, as they meant "in front of the enemy decorated". I have hardly ever seen a real MVK 3rd modell issue without swords (well, now we know why), but the article shows two crosses 2nd class - both real silver. I don't know when they did change but, well... not all at Nimmergut's opus magnum is correct. I'd rather not buy a Alpacca silvered 3rd modell 2nd class without swords. You might add swords (or rather a cross with swords, if you believe in the cross) and this is a very, very nice bar. :catjava:
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Sorry, I did not get that. Do you agree or disagree when I say the 2nd model is proper while the 3rd model seems to have its swords lost or removed? I hardly doubt this is a real but misplaced 2nd class of 3rd modell... is it real silver? Those 1913 models without swords are amungst the rarest Bavarian decorations. Don't want to intend it cannot be just as it's rare, but on a altered (see long service award) medal bar...
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Very nice group, however I have to claim that the 3rd modell MVK had swords, almost sure. It is not on peace time ribbon, and if it were I guess it should replace the 2nd class of 2nd model. But yet, this alone is makes it a great bar! Had my MVK2/2 for years and it was hard to give it away... Might the ribbon on the Ehrenkreuz be one for the Kyffh?userbund medal? They sometimes swapped only the medals and continued to wear then non matching ribbons.
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Thanks, Mr. Research and Mr. Museum! Those are really not the nicest paperworks around. At least I think so. have never seen anything else for 1870/71, but on the other hand, I think I have not seen many... I think I even saw this one before - Mr. Museum has recently been to Kirchheim, right?! :rolleyes:
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Hmm yes, I remember your nightmare group... and some else... with BZ3*XE and a Lippe order... but the day will come. If you're right and it is an OK2... might my bar be with a KO4w to a desktop hero, but in enemy's area (and so with black ribboned EK2). I think that makes most sense as he indeed looks very Prussian. Cannot be a "Foreigner" with pre war KrVMw. And does not look like a colonial award with missing X devices. Hmm... a stupid bar, anyway. :catjava:
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Two bars with questions don't make a question thread, and while I posted my three HOH3X/BZ3*X/OK2 in the HOH3X thread, I have to concur here with something else. I did think about it but didn't become any wiser from. I think that's one of the oddest I've ever seen - or is it me just blind?! Black/white ribbon in #1 should be an EK2 1914, #2 has to be L?beck Hanseaten cross, #3 is a white/black ribbon, #4 a blue long service ribbon and #5 looks like OK2 for non-combattants or W?rttemberg long service award. Preu?e or W?rttemberger... ? If it were a W?rttemberger's bar I'd suppose #3 to be a pre-war Prussian KrVM - but there is nothing else from W?rttemberg which makes me wonder what the last ribbon is, especially as #4 is yet an long service award... Any ideas?! :catjava: