Claudius

No problem. There are many backings found on medal bars and ribbon bars. Different colors of Silk, wool, felt, etc. When the backing is felt, it was VERY typical for the medal bar makers to use an Orange felt backing for the Army. For both the medal bars and ribbon bars -like yours. Navy guys would use a black or dark blue backing. I don't know exactly why, but I suspect that on their dark blue uniforms they don't want ANY chance of Orange fuzz coming off on their uniforms. (I would guess that it would stick out like Cheetos crumbs.) The dark blue backing was also used for civilian or para-military uniforms for ex-soldiers.

If you mean by "did well" that it is period -Yes, I do think you did well. A real nice one. This gent was thoroughly Prussian; he put every single Prussian/Imperial decoration before any other state's combat awards. Even the BMV4Kr with SWORDS comes later. I would have liked to see his medal bar...I'm sure it was really nice looking. A fine one to add to your collection. Oh, originally you asked about branch and career....Army. A mid to upper ranking officer with pre-wwi service (obviously). During the war he was attached to, mixed with or otherwise associated with some units from other states. I would guess that this bar was made near the end or a short time after the war. Copiously worn since but didn’t add to it.

Wow. Amazing. That bar....that group. wow.

Beautiful pieces. My mother collected colored glass. Mainly "depression-era" pieces. I call the Carnival glass -poor man's Tiffany. The Pressed glass from the 1930-40s doesn't have the same dignity as your Victorian items, but they were available and cheaper for her to collect. I'm seeing more and more of the pieces in my house as my mother has been gifting pieces to my wife on birthdays/Christmases.

A small search and I found this old thread. So, a Black or Dark Blue felt backing could likely be navy OR civilian. http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/24330-backing-material-on-medal-bars/page__hl__%2Bmedal+%2Bbar+%2Bbacking__fromsearch__1

Palmarium!

Thank you Odulf! You are a wealth for information. I would like to see your collection of PePs. I think it would make an interesting thread. It is unfortunate that it is unknown the number of PePs issued. It would provide some perspective to the award. The evidence for this medal bar belonging to a Navy man is "circumstantial". Pundits have concurred that the dark blue felt backing is indicative of a naval personnel; however I understand your argument as well. A tailor, who constructs mainly navy medals bars, may not have other felt in stock. In addition, a Kyffhäuser tunic is a dark blue and a dark blue felt backing would be a better match. Can anyone who owns a lot of medal bars add to this topic of felt backing color on naval medal bars and non-naval medal bars?

Hallo Odulf; I do not doubt your information. For my own education I would like to know where you learned this information. While this individual would be hard to trace, I would like to understand how many there are to consider. Is there an available list of names or numbers issued by year and nationality? out of 100,000s issued... xxx,xxx were issued to Germans xx,xxx were issued to Germans who were combantants in the Armed Forces x,xxx were issued to Germans in the Imperial Navy x,xxx were issued to Germans in the Imperial Navy and did not earn a long service award or other notable service awards. x,xxx were issued to Germans in the Imperial Navy,did not earn a long service award or other notable service awards and were alive in 1930's Germany

EXACTLY...and that appealed to me.

Oh boy, here we go again...

When I turned the medal bar over to the back side...there was no label but, Hello Sailor! The dark blue felt is (usually) indicative of naval personnel. This man was in the naval armed forces, the Kaiserliche Marine.

reverse...

In addition to being attached at the top, there are threads holding the EK2's arm and the HK's swords. The Pro Ecclesia et Pontifice cross is free to move.

Here is a little medal bar I fancied. It is not exactly in my area of collecting but I liked its very simplicy and what it said about the owner. First off, he served in the German armed forces during the war as a combatant. That earned him the Hindenburg Cross with swords and the gallantry award in the form of the Iron Cross 2nd Class on a combatant’s ribbon. The third medal is the Pro Ecclesia et Pontifice award or cross. Translated "For Church and Pope” It is a Roman Catholic award established by Pope Leo XIII on July 17, 1888 to commorate his golden jubilee (of taking sacred orders) and was awarded to men or women that aided and promoted his jubilee. It was made a permanent distinction in October 1898 and is used today to reward clergy and lay persons for outstanding service to the Pope or the Catholic Church. This example is a gold grade, three piece construction with some wear. The ribbon has some staining and there is some corrosion on the clasp on the back. The recipient of this cross was awarded the cross for outstanding service before or after (or during?!) the war. He was likely a Catholic and an NCO or lower rank that hadn't been in service much before the war and didn't attract any other official attention during the war.

reverse.... Also, are the fakers also making hand-made hangers using old Order of Glory ribbons, with TWO bows? That seems like a lot of work. Wouldn't it be easier to sell the cross by itself?

obverse close-up

photo

photo

OK....I didn't see this response immediately. After Simpi01, I guess it's my turn in Torquemada's pleasure chair. I was going to offer this cross for sale but first I want to elaborate on what we believe it is. I don't have any absolutes, only the facts and logic to argue for this cross. I also took some better quality photos. According to my records, I bought this cross in 11/93 at a Military show in the US. I didn't record the dealer's name. The cross was/is as you see it, both the medal and ribbon suspension together. When I bought it, I thought it was a late war, possible field numbered and classed. The ribbons have been identified as WWII Soviet Order of Glory. The bow is indicative of 3rd class and one bow is on top of another. I was informed this doesn't signify anything -just two bows. The hanger is non-professional, hand-made. kustik12 can offer that the last mint house 3rd class number is 338650 and that the "Don Cross" did have hammered/engraved numbers, but a distinguishing different style. Cossack states that this cross looks like many of the copies and has a dull finish indicative of a fake "ageing". The question I have is, Usually "fakes" are trying to be as close to known authentic articles. They look to duplicate every detail and nuance. With my cross, why would they make every effort to duplicate the obverse knight/horse/dragon and on the reverse the monogram and then to not put a class number and use the same script letters for the serial number? The serial numbers are usually done in the mint. This cross wasn't done in the mint because it used a different script for the numbers. If it wasn't done in the mint, the cross would use the range of numbers used by the mint, they would continue from that point. Does anyone have similar cross they can show? Cossack and kustik12 have not come across any other crosses, but maybe someone has an example or knows a dealer with some. Thank you.

Outstanding photo. Can anyone make out what #5 is? Christophe -maybe his unit would help. Can you make a closeup of his shoulderboard?

That is impactful. Thank you for showing them.

Ah, but I am reminded of what you said earlier. Your great grandfather brought back items from the war and then emigrated to the US. Then, "over the years he collected more and more" and you (personally) were not "into collecting". You then weren't interested in the items he collected. Isn't it possible, just possible, that he collected these St. George crosses long after his Romanian aviation days? From your view point the crosses he purchased recently are mingled in with the items he had for over 65 years. There wouldn't be any particular way to separate them. [i empathize with you...really I do. I have two Imperial Russian badges that I purchased over 20 years ago from a small Hamburg military shop. I was sure that they were authentic, how could they not be? I even posted them on this forum, but I later learned that they were quality repros that were made around that time. Some experts were even fooled until new "tells" were discovered and they were found on my badges. That stung to learn that hard truth.]

Thank you Simpi01 for showing us your 100% crosses.

Hello simpi01; I always enjoy looking at medals and militaria. The items intrigue me, both in-of-themselves and who made them, how they were used or awarded, how the recipients received them and kept them for decades until they were passed on from family member to family member until the family doesn't want it anymore and sells it. May I ask how long you had these crosses? Where did you get them? Thank you,