Claudius

With Andreas' permission, I am posting other information I have. Rudolf von Schönberg 2 Kompanie of S.B. III POW # 2051 He was also at Japanese prison camp Oita (It was not unusual for the German POWs to be in more than one prison camp during their stay in Japan; 1914-1920. When the Japanese finally captured Tsingtau, the German prisoners were transferred to Japan to existing or rapidly set-up POW camps on nearly every island Prefecture of Japan (except Hokkaido). Some of these camps were small and crowded and others were large and inadequate. Over time the Japanese made improvements and moved their "guests" to better quarters. In some cases the Germans also helped with their own improvements. Their industrious extended to even building a bridge for the Japanese civilians outside the prison grounds. I understand that it was very well made and that it is still there today.)

...inside the book, added to the EK2 winning rolls. Would anyone be able to tell me anything more about Herr Kleeman? Unit? Battles? Troop movements? Thank you in advance.

book..

I don't own it...but it is the four medals he has the documents for.

DOA money -reverse

War time and pre-war money (didn't come with the group)

Permission to wear Schutztruppe uniform and rank.

25 year Police Service Cross

Hindenburg Cross

EK2 for Unterofficier in Schutztruppe of DSWA. For Christmas Eve!

15 year long service

Elephant Order

Hello; I don't believe I have brought out Hugo Kleemann to look at for a while. I hope you enjoy it. Any comments or additional information is always welcome. -Claudius

Great. After hitting the reply button...you have to hit the button "More Reply Options" (bottom right).

Hello; I don't recogonize it, but there are so many different ones. However, I'm not familar with the quality of this item. Can we see the reverse? Thank you.

I have not read that book. This is the book I own. (the ebay book is just one i found for sale, I'm not selling mine) Signed by the author. I talked to him some years ago....I should perhaps look him up again. http://www.ebay.de/i...=item19cff985e7 It's not surprising, but in my hunt for Tsingtau groups, Gunther Plüschow group would be very BIG!

Hmmm...I see your point. Maybe because the very early airplanes were single-seaters and the role of aircraft was entirely as "observer".

"Even the exact name of the badge is unknown ..." Don't know what they would call it....but with the binoculars on it....do you think it is more of an observer badge than pilot?

Hello all; I'm really glad to see my old thread alive. Thank you beriwilliams and Chris for your responses. When I posted my question I was buying an imperial German medal bar with a RS on it. I was hoping to ID the recipient by cross-referencing known recipients of the RS. Unfortunately, after I purchased the medal bar online, the dealer lost my order and let someone else buy it from under me. Nevertheless, these appear to be great sources and if I ever get a bar (in my hands) with a RS or ST, I will delve into them. Thank you again.

Oh, it's a replica alright. But a real replica.. Confusing? I mean that it isn't a period (pre-1918) order and it isn't a fake meant to look like a period piece. I don't think it is even a museum copy. It is costume jewelry made by someone who saw a real one and liked the way it looked. A close up photo of the maker mark might be enough for someone who knows costume jewelry manufactures. It doesn't look like a high quality piece, but it is interesting from a copy standpoint. BTW; it is two piece construction and its attached by a screw. I noticed that the falcon and swords rotated slightly to the left.

Hello; That would be great. I would like to see all three of these PAs. PA 7586 PA 7456 PA 11606

Hello Andreas; Yes, I do have something to say about this topic. I own a several Tsingtau document groups and have had the pleasure to see a few others. While I can’t claim to have seen every Tsingtau group, in my opinion, the EK2 was awarded to EVERY German combatant POW. (any Tsingtau group that doesn’t have the document with it is because it was lost or separated.) I believe that upon their return, the German Ministry authorized the awarding of the EK2 to all defenders of the Kiautschou Protectorate. It is my opinion, that the “PA 7586” dated “September 16th, 1920” is that statute from the Ministry that authorized the awarding of EKIIs to the defenders of the Kiautschou Protectorate. One of my document groups has a Preliminary EK2 document. It isn’t as ornate as an award document, but it has a lot more discussion on the document. It also specifically mentions this “PA 7586” “dated September 16th, 1920”. The EXACT same code and date on Graumann's document (and all Tsingtau EKII documents). I had wanted to include a photo of the document here for you today, but domestic events prevented me from accessing the group and taking the photo. Regarding your EK1 document, it has the “PA 7456” authorized on “September 16th, 1920” language crossed out. The “PA 7456” were the authorized conditions that would have to be fulfilled for an applicant to be awarded the EK1. It is this Statute that is crossed out on Herr Graumann’s EKI document. Clearly, Herr Graumann didn’t qualify for the EKI, under the previously approved statute (PA 7456). Fortunately for Herr Graumann, on December 20th 1920, they approved Statute “PA 11606” and Herr Graumann fulfilled those conditions and he was awarded the EKI. But I don’t know what Statute “PA 11606” from December 20th, 1920 says. The earlier Statutes “PA 7456” and “PA 7586” were general enough to cover the very many different ways a person can earn the EKI and the EKII, after the war. The later “PA 11606” Statute was possibly approved when it was noticed that the “PA 7456” missed a condition that the Ministry wanted to cover. It is likely that it is a very specific condition and if we knew what it was, it would provide a remarkable insight as to what Herr Graumann did to earn his EKI. I hope this helps.

"the bad news is that, at least as of the last time I checked (back in 2010), all of the publications giving the lists were out of print" This pretty well sums up the situation. However Bob, that doesn't diminish at all our interest in seeing photos of your cross. There may still be some insights from seeing it and any other artifacts.

No opinion other than :love:

Indeed, it is I. One and the same. There are very few Roman Emperor avatars from people who are interested in Battle of Tsingtau groups. (and I hope the list remains small, these groups are hard enough to find without even more competition.) Hello Chris! Yes, we corresponded heavily for a time and I shared all the information I had. But regarding specific primary source information on the commanders, I'm a bit out of my depth. I'm glad to see you are making progress on your thesis and have joined this forum!