Chris Boonzaier

with a lot of imagination ? ;-)

Noone???? :-(

Hi, I will definately look for it... Is it better than Jean Claude Laparra's? Best Chris

could it be a "57" ??

Indeed... but here are my thoughts.... 500 men of the 3rd J?ger may have been older, it does not mean the 500 that then came were Olympic contenders, just younger and fresher... We often read (in post war literature) that SB gathered together the best men to the detriment of the other units... My thoughts... I think thats BS. Why? Because there were no recruiting drives in line regiments taking their best elements to join the SB. The Ersatz for each of the SB was quite simply an Ersatz battalion somewhere that MAY have skimmed of the youngest and fittest for the SB (They were also responsible for supplying their parent units), but these Ersatz Batallion only had what happened to come through their doors, like any other. Lets take SB Rohr, replacements came from the Ersatz Batallion of Pi35. Pi. 35 had men sent to them like a thousand other Ersatz battalions in Germany. They had to supply Pionier Regiment 35 and Rohr. It is possible that the better men went to Rohr, but that still means for 250 men to Rohr, it was the best 250 men of 600 men in the depot. (Not a "best out of 50!" thing) There was no army wide recruiting drive saying "all the best may volunteer to join the SB"..... The SB were beholden to an Ersatz Battalion that received the same quality of recruits than the Ersatz Battalion in the next Kasserne.... If you were young and eager and your local Ersatz Battalion was the EB of the I.R.111, you may have a chance of getting sent to the SB 7. If you were just as young and eager and your local Ersatz Battalion was the EB of the I.R.112, you would not. So, basically, as I see it, the SB simply got the best of the Ersatz Battalion that was responsible for them. That battalion in turn had the same average of good and bad recruits as 1000 other Ersatz Battalions in Germany. There may have been a group of super soldiers at the EB for IR112... and they would go on to serve in IR112. Seen that way, the material that came to the SB was probably slightly better than the average soldier, but NOT the finest men selected from all the serving units. Any thoughts?

Thank Ye very much!!! <Best Chris

Hi, a difficult one here.... Thanks Chris

Would love to see it...

There is indeed little. I have been working with a photocopy of the "Aufbau und Verwendung der Deutschen Sturmbataillone im Weltkrieg" by Hellmuth Gruss (published 1939) for a few years. It is not a bad basic start. A French Book called "Les Gladiateurs"(Les formations offensives dans l'Armee allemande) by JC LaParra is pretty good. "Stormtroop Tactics" by Bruce Gudmundsson was a good primer, but now way out of date. There are a couple more floating around, but those are a good start. I have some stuff ready for the website, but it still needs a bit of work. Best Chris

Agreed, I think we are tripping over how each of us uses the word "Cream" It is sure that no SB on its lonesome ever won a major battle, but worth noting that in the 1918 offensives most of the spearheading divisions had not only been trained by the SB, but the front units were accompanied by elements (Mostly companies) of the various SB to provide on the spot tactical aid (either advice, muscle or moral). This inspite of the fact that they had already been trained in SB methods. Best <Chris

I think there is some confusion here... that the German units were functioning after the war, no argument. The wifes grandfather was there in the Marine and after the war it was business as usual (without combat of course) for a number of months after the war. That is partially why there are so many Marine "Denazified" badges, he was working with the brits and wore denazified badges. Uwe is however right as well. For the Bundesrepublik a post war Norwegian promotion wont count, For the associations of KC winners a post armistice KC wont count and men joining the BW in the 50s were not allowed to wear post surrender awards. Noone would moan if you wore your late 45 EK2 to the veterans association meeting, but officially they are not legit. Ditto for the ones to minesweepers. Well merited awards... but done on the initiative of the local commander and are as such unofficial. Best Chris

I think this is a 1920s cheapo..... The rims are like a thin sardine can metal, you can almost cut yourself on them. As you can see on the 1914, the first "1" is slightly under the rim, causing it to lift. the alighment slightly out (see top of right arm....)

Please look here... http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=36021&hl=

"Have they been trained better? I don?t know. Fact is, they had a better equipment than a regular infantry unit. They didn?t use rifles, they used carabines. The first Sturmtruppen were pioneers. Major Calsow from the Pi.Btl.15 first formed a experimental troup, depending of 2 pioneer companies with shields and 1 detachment with 20 guns (3,7cm). They first operated at the front of Loretto. They failed. The rest of those units came to the Armee-Abteilung Gaede. " Hi, I think they were without a doubt better trained, simply because they were in constant training whereas regular units were often for long periods in the front line. The men of the Sturmtruppen also trained other units, and there is no better way to really learn something than having to teach it to someone else. So if you are constantly training, AND being used for assaults, you are much more active than other line units who waste long periods while artillery shoots at their trenches. Even elite units like the Alpenkorps, 10RD, 50ID etc were trained by the Sturmtruppen and the knowledge was passed down to the infantry. It is important to remember, the Sturm bataillonen were supposed (in the long run) to make themselves redundant, Ludendorff wanted the tactics passed down to the Infantry... once that had been achieved the SB themselves would have been little more than combat schools who did refresher course assaults for themselves at the front. All in all I think the SB WERE an elite, cream of the crop organization, The men were selected, better trained, better fed and I dare say the unit pride gave them a better moral.... What I wonder though (the main theme of the thread) was this selection of men to the detriment of other units? Was the SB gain, another units loss? Did the fact that there were SB lead to a lowering of quality in the regular Infantry regiments? Loretto and the Calsow period I think should be kept separate as it was really a "staggering around blindly" period before any theory had been decided on. All the best Chris

Hi, Thanks. I assume it was the wearer as noone would do it for EUR2 and the pot of junk was not from a collector, so i am happy with it as it is. It is a nice find, although not my field. best Chris

You often read that Special forces troops are unloved by regular commanders because they take the best men to the detriment of the other units... My question... Did WW1 Sturmtruppen really consist of the cream of the German army... or were they just better trained? Thoughts?

Better pics.....

Photo can be dated between mid November 1916- July1917, Maybe 52 IR? They were however Prussian... but the extra ribbons make me think non Prussian?

Hi, Can anyone make an educated guess on the following? http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3601...mp;#entry335991

The following from those I assume to be infantrymen....

I am of the opinion that this is a small group of Rohr Pioniers who were training a group of Infanttrymen. Most obvious in this photo? Rohr man on the right, in the middle it seems to be a man with field grey shoulderboards ending with a "2"

Thanks to CM I have the opportunity to present some scans that may really get the mind working.... Here are some men of Surmbataillon 5 (Rohr)....... I was surprised to see only a few had carbines, most had GW98

Hi, someone was telling me this week how he used to take WW2 ammo and mess with them (removing the tips) to make usable hunting ammo. best Chris

Hi, I am sure I am the first collector to have this in his hands. I paid EUR2 for it at the flea market this morning, it was in a cooking pot filled with old DDR stickpins, coins, thimbles, matchboxes, dice, scraps of paper, bits of thread, you name it. It may not have come from the factory like this, but the contents of the pot were not collector oriented, more like the old junk you get when you tip the contents of some desk drawers together. I would bet noone has REALLY had this in his hand since the original wearer tossed it in his writing desk drawer a few decades ago. Maybe he repaired it and put a new catch on it, but I would bet a cold beer noone has bothered to look at this in 20-30 years. best Chris

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