Mondvor

Well, until 1938 there was a Central Executive Commetee of USSR and all awards were bestowed in according with Postanovlenie (Decree) of this organization. Since 1938 Cental Executive Commetee was replaced with the Presidium of Supreme Soviet of the USSR and since that time awards were bestowed in according with Ukaz of PSS. I'll try to put the translation, but it is just a basic description. No personal details in it.

Hello Gentlemen, By some strange reason I didn't have an access to the forum from my home computer. Every time when I hit a link, the blank web page poped up. The browser says "Done" like a page was found OK, but nothing is on the screen. Probably something went wrong with my settings. But other forums and web pages I can see normally. Anyway, I found the guy. This is Ukaz (to be more precise not the Ukaz, but Postanovlenie) about Military Aviation pilots, crewmembers and technicians. His rank indicated as Major. There were more than 200 Red Stars issued with this Postanovlenie (his number in the list is 67 if I do not mistaken) along with many Red Banners and Badges of Honor. I can do the translation of the description of merits in this Postanovlenie, but it is common to all recipients. I wish I can restore my access to the forum from my home computer

Me? What a surprise Well, I have about 80% of all Ukazes from 1934 to 1938 with the names and sometimes with a description of the merits (especially for labor awards). I'll check for his name tonight.

Who is "big M"? Is that Moiseev, Merezhko or McDaniel? As far as I know there were no citations for the awards prior to WWII. All you can find is award card and Ukaz published in the newspaper.

After I'll come home, I'll check for his Ukaz in my databaze. Might be something interesting.

Awesome documents. Looks like he was in aviation. Are awards available or papers only?

My Great Grand Father was a Lieutenant NKVD officer in a position of a platoon commander in the Independent NKVD Battallion. This Battallion provided security to Headquarters of South-Eastern Front. If you are familiar with a basic history of WWII, you might know about the tragedy happened with whole South-Eastern Front in September 1941, when German troops encircled and finally captured Kiev. Front Commander HSU General-Colonel Kirponos, Front Chief of Staff General-Major Tupikov and many other top-ranking staff officers were killed trying to penetrate through enemy lines. Many others (including the Commander of 5th Army General-Major Potapov) were captured by Germans and became prisoners. Only few Soviet soldiers and officers (appr. 1 out of 10) made it through German lines and united with Soviet troops. My Great Grandpa was one of them. He spent about three month in some sort of a prison, where they questioned him, compared his story with stories of other survivers, asked him to write down his story again and again, hoping he would make a mistake. But finally they released him and returned him his rank. The main reason why they did forgive him was the fact that he kept his Communist Party ID card, his military ID card and his personal handgun. Some people destroyed their papers before the breakthrough and their fate was really grim. However, they didn't send him to the frontlines again. The rest of the war he spent in internal NKVD troops and his only award was Victory over Germany medal. Later he got some jubilee medals, Valiant Labor medal and For defence of Kiev medal. He was retired from Army in early 60th at the rank of Major.

There were no ribbons for Republican Orders. They all were placed at the red "rosette" - specially folded piece of red cloth.

All right Darrell I'll scan the documents after I'll get home today. Will try to post them at the evening. Promise you would not laugh

Gerd, you've got a very nice duplicate. My congratulations Actually, 90 percent of all duplicates made out of regularly numbered pieces. Original number was scratched off (removed, deleted - not sure which word is correct) and the number of duplicate was stamped instead. Before entering duplicate's number the surface was sand-blasted, so sometimes it is hard to see that original number was removed. On Gerd's Red Star you can see different collor of patina around the number. So this specimen is the one with rubbed out original hand-engraved number.

Making fun of "crazy Russians"? Actually, by some reason all faces on Soviet-time ID pictures are very serious. Nobody is smiling. Strange, huh? I can post MY OWN Drivers License and Young Communist League Membership ID card and I am not smiling on those pictures as well (even though I was a teenager at that time). Can anyone explain this phenomenon?

Gerd, my congratulations with a cool Patriotic War citation. Very nice condition for early 5-digit number award. In my opinion you should order award card as well, and I can explain you why do I think so. If his GPW is out of the group, then there is a chance that his other awards also were for sale as a single items. If you know their numbers, then you can start to search for them. Chances to find something are pretty low, but if it was on the market during last 5 years it is traceable.

Doc, you are absolutely right. We all start our collections from some mistakes, but after some time we gain certain amount of experience. I was really lucky because I started to collect Soviet awards during the "Golden Age", when prices were low and even rare pieces were available in big quantities. Another good thing - I lived in Kiev at that time. Kiev was a capital for all collectors from former USSR, because in Russia this hobby was strictly prohibited. But in Ukraine it was fine. So dealers from Russia, Ukraine, Baltic Countries and other places brought their stuff to Kiev. I remember that dozens of screwback Red Banners were available every Saturday and the price was from 60 USD for excellent condition award to 45 for the one with broken enamel. Early Bravery and MM medals with hand-engraved numbers were for sale in many places, and most of them with original suspension. The price was around 25 USD. I remember that I refused to buy a set with Glory 2nd class, Glory 3rd class and 6-digit Red Star (all in good condition and with orderbook) for the price of 55 USD only because both Glories had their connection rings cut. I was looking for absolutely mint condition with intact silver-alloy soldered connection rings. Yes, I was really spoiled And I miss this time a lot!!! Everything have changed now and the prices in Kiev for some awards are even higher than in USA

Dave, I think we can add another important point - let's cooperate! We are all collectors, not dealers. So we can help each other and share the knowledge we have. Together we can resist even advanced fake makers

Gentlemen, I think we all should realize that there is no "single feature" that would determine wether or not particular order is real or fake. There are many components that we should pay attention to. Mintmark, serial number style, enamel color, patina, traces of wear, goldplating, "watermarks", similarity to close numbered "neighbours" and many other things. Understanding of all that staff normally comes with the experience. If one would examine carefully ten screwback Red Banners, then eleventh item would not be a hard one to detrermine it's authenticity. And no expert would help you. Even a Great Experts can make mistakes. Try to become your own expert. Start from simple things and then proceed further. Collect pictures and scans, compare them. Look for "watermarks". Read all possible literature. And after some time you'll greatly improve your skills.

About grayish shadow in the center... It's a common thing. Look at this order, it has same thing around hammer and sickle.

I think enamel and screwpost are original. Here is a picture of the reverse. No signs of repaired screpost.

Ed, I have images of several original documents for Personal Courage. If somebody is interested I can post some of them later at the day (after I get home).

Both order and document are sloppy fakes.

This part of the Red Banner looks absolutely normal to me. But I would agree with other members that it's better to place the picture of entire order. Otherwise it's like to place a picture of a belly button and ask if it's a man or a woman

Looks OK to me.

Doc, this idea make sense. Many collectors doing this way. But this very copy of Suvorov was made for different reason. As far as I understand it was on sale...

I don't know the explanation. But it could be one thing... Of course you know that during last years actual prices for Soviet awards increased greatly. So many American collectors selling out their collections because of two reasons. First reason - they made a great investment and can get three or four times more then they spent buying the orders seven or eight years ago. Second reason - they can not afford any new purchases of Soviet staff. When Red Star Mondvor was 200 USD it was OK, but now it's more than 1000 USD. And if you consider Suvorov or Kutuzov, the distance will be even more dramatic. So they all put their collections for sale. That's why it's so many new items appeared recently. Just check how many new amazing things has Moiseev on his web site... But the prices

This real Suvorov 3rd class was for sale in Russia several month ago. Unfortunately I have no idea who bought it. Probably the new owner made impressions from a real piece to produce a copy. Or it could be previous owner. Or a dealer in between them. Who knows...

Actually it has little enamel damage on the tip of left lower star's ray. This enamel chip is superficial, maybe half distance to the metal. It is visible on the scan. But this was the best condition I could find...