Stogieman

My understanding of the "submarine" badge is that it's a purely 1950's piece with really good marketing.. Tim's Badge looks like a quite crude cast badge that I would not even begin to know where to date. I cannot imagine with German, Austrian 7 Turkish made examples leftover from WW1, why someone would want something this cheesy looking in 1920....

My Mongolian Best Herder Badge arrived from Germany of all places today. A most impressive piece of enamel work, only appreciated in hand. There's an earlier style than this that is extremely crude.... This one is numbered 3660

Bob, I believe what you will find here is that all of Heiko's examples, excluding his "Auob" Bar are 18/19mm. wide (minimum). The Auob bar shown by Heiko is probably 15mm. The Auob bar shown by Heiko is a poor quality photo and I can't imagine making a determination from this picture alone. Having said that, there's either deformities in the photo, or the bar itself (background) that do not come close to matching the quality of the 15mm. bars I have shown. Notice that the "Venezuala" bar offered by Nordwind doesn't match any of the examples shown by Rick, Heiko, or myself and is at least 19-20mm. wide. In addition, the China mini clasps shown by Heiko are from one maker. The Afrika clasps are from one maker in posts 46 & 47 and (probably) a different maker from the China clasps. The Auob Bar photo is possibly the same maker as the two shown by me. A third maker. Note that of the bars shown by both Heiko & Rick Research, are at least 18-20mm. wide. Many of these photos are not of "diagnostic" quality. One cannot compare China Clasps with Afrika. One cannot compare full-size clasps with miniatures. One cannot compare 3 different makers of Afrika clasps and expect there to be uniformity. Uniformity of a single type from a single maker, sure. But from 4 different makers?? (1 China, 3 Afrika)??

Exactly what the case should look like. Perfect!

Oh yeah, my "camera-phone" has a photo of him licking it.............

It was a nice visit Because......... .......... mein eyes ist OK

Ralph, I tell you what...... I'll give you 3 DM and you can keep the nickel..... ?? Deal?? How about packets...... I happen to know some of you are sitting on packets for Imperial pieces........

Thanks Andreas!

OK, then based on this detail, we have to accept that pieces that are marked as follows: S&W (stamped) S&W (incused) W (stamped or inscribed) Johnn Wagner & Sohn (Crown, Moon 800) (Railway Badges)(some EK's) Were all from the same company run by Johnn Wagner!! ? !!!! Now, I can certainly accept the sense of using existing tooling and dies.......... but using multiple maker marks? OK, I suppose that is possible, but highly unusual.......... Perhaps there was some agreement made whereby Wagner was obligated to continue marking some pieces as S&W??? As an example of this, in the 1930's, The Ives Manufacturing Company of Bridgeport, CT was broken up and swallowed by both Lionel & American Flyer..... However both companies were required by agreement to continue using the Ives name (in some way) per agreement.... I don't remember for how many years.

So this one dates pre 1880? Or????? (again with S&W)(Which BTW is the same mark we see on EK2 rings)

Interesting and different disc, suspension ring combination here......... Not one I have seen before. Andreas??

Still a nice bar, despite the lack of Beamter ribbon !!

Great thread! Now that's a lot of Wound Badges! Especially nice to see the screw-backs and Navy badges!

Thanks Ed! and thanks to all who have found something special from me...... WildCard! Awesome! I will add my second favorite item of Imperial Militaria from 2005.

Which is a real sore spot to many of us for many reasons........ there's a substantial number of people with the attitude of "I only collect EK2 documents from units that fought in Turkey and I don't care what I destroy as long as I get mine" attitude. Really smokes me..... The flip side is that usually after huge expense to keep a group together, I cannot find even 1 person interested in doing the same at my cost, so they usually end up going at a loss......... apparently, not many people really care.

PS, I don't think there's an english equivalent to ?se, (oese).... maybe "suspension knob", or "suspension ring"...... somehow ?se just feels more korekt!

OK, just a quick question: If S&W becomes Wagner (W) ca. 1880...... then who was the S&W attributed to Sy & Wagner ca. 1914-18 and often found marking WW1 EK1?? Sorry about the Werner thing...... sometimes the fingers work faster than the brain, or vice versa! Then...... (OK, more than 1 question) The example I show in posts #6 & #8 is a known ca. 1866 example. We know the seller stripped an original bar to sell the piece. We know the cross is authentic....... however the ?se is much fatter than the thin examples shown by WildCard! Where does this fit in??????????

Hi Dan, thanks to everybody....... we're all still on the learning curve. Especially me!

Thanks Heiko, I have not pursued the knowledge of veteran pieces/1920's items as far as I probably should. There are times my brain feels full enough with respects to aviation pieces....... My buddy Mike Dunn has a pretty neat/extensive collection and interest in veteran's pieces.

Hi John, with respects to the markings I simply mean we have yet another straight from the family group with no "crown mark" on the back of the badge!

BTW, an excellent example of what to look for in a hook-back, they will always show up in many different forms and styles, but this one is very nice (Shown by RickR.) and does not have the nasty "hand-cut" hooks as we sometimes see on bars that are very, very wrong! ;>)

ummmmmmmm, yes, two guys, but the regulations/precedence still suggest one being pre-1934/5, the other being post???

What? No other Imperial treasures from 2005????????????????????????

Yep, apart from the reinforcement on the markings, this is one of the finest and most interesting aviation groups I've seen in forever........ my only question is: How the heck did you bump into the family????

Actually, the correct spelling is The (Truly) Evil One? Anything else...... well, infered, always infered......... I should be able to drop this bar at his house tomorrow for examination/comparison.