Trooper_D

I am starting this thread as a place to post information about officers of British (including Irish) extraction who served in the Imperial Austro-Hungarian forces (including those who served with the Hungarian forces during the 1848 Hungarian Revolution). I hope that this is the appropriate forum. I would welcome contributions from other GMICers.

Thanks for introducing me to this interesting man, Markgraf. I had previously been unaware of him. Although he was born in England, he appears to have been of French and supposedly noble heritage. I reproduce below the first paragraph from his entry in the Oxford National Dictionary of Biography (ONDB), which is a bit more informative than his Wikipedia entry, I am reminded of the early career of another Englishman who spend time in Austrian service, Captain Nolan of Charge of the Light Brigade fame. Again from the ONDB: Interesting that both men served in Austrian Hussar regiments at the same time. I wonder if they ever met?

I will be very interested to see whatever they give you. I am coming to think that the name "Crewe-Preston" may have been an affectation to improve his social status. In any event, the origins of this man are obscure so it would be nice if we could cast some light on him. As a general point, I am always interested in finding English names in the Schematismus as, as I indicated in another thread, I am interested in this idea that loyalties were more fluid at this time (in other words, it was easier to serve in a foreign army).

Iver This is a fascinating but rather curious puzzle you've set us! I'm sure that you have googled "Crewe-Preston" already, in which case you will know that there are no instances of the family to be found (or at least, that I can find). Furthermore, familysearch.org, where I would normally expect to find reference to a London baptism, is silent and ancestry.co.uk is no better. It is possible, I suppose, that he was born in London but baptised overseas (Austria?). Did you find his date-of-birth on his gravestone or do you have another source? Can you, perhaps, give us some more clues?

Very interesting additional information, Saxcob. Many thanks.

Thank you for posting this, Saxcob - another wonderful piece from your collection which I, for one, have enjoyed seeing! This Adels-brief is quite a bit more substantial than its British equivalent, Letters patent of Nobility, which would consist of a single piece of vellum, albeit with the Royal seal. Am I correct that the figure on the coat of arms is Diana, in her guise of Moon goddess as well as goddess of hunting? Does the Adels-brief explain why she was chosen? Another question, if I may? I see from the printed text that he was elevated to the nobility - untitled, I think - on 1.1.1858; however, the Adels-brief is dated '7xx [can't read] 1859', if I am reading it correctly. Are you able to tell me why there is a difference in date? On a more general point, you note that your man served with the Turkish army. Was this an official transfer from the Prussian army or was it a reflection of the greater fluidity of loyalties, then, whereby adventurous young men could serve in armies other than that of their mother country? Apologies for so many questions - and please be in no rush to answer them - but you have to expect it, if you post such an interesting item

Thank you for these interesting comments, Saxcob. I agree with you as to the quality of the engraving. Accident or not, I am most envious of you for owning such an astonishing piece.

IrishGunner said it best, Saxcob, this is an awesome salver - and also an extremely interesting piece for those of us interested in heraldry. Is it yours? I wonder how much it cost each of his comrades-in-arms? Dependent on its weight and size, I imagine you might have to spend £750 to £1000 for a decent one, today. To which one needs to add engraving costs: to have one shield engraved, I would expect to pay between £50 and £75 (depending on complexity) - although you might get some discount for 27 of them - plus more for the wonderful inscription and 'wappen'. At today's prices, I can therefore quite imagine that the other officers would have to have contributed £80+ each! Perhaps not so much for an esteemed brother officer but you wouldn't want it to happen every week I notice that there is a 14 month gap between the two examples you have brought to our attention, so there must be some more out there, surely?

Thank you very much, Dante, much appreciated!

Wonderful helms, Dante. Would it be possible, as a great educational aid for newbies like me, to post a list just briefly describing each, please?

... just my size, I'll post you my address, Adler Jokes aside, you have managed to find another exquisite item. Congratulations!

Thanks.

Thank you for the clarification. Now that is very interesting as it opens up new possibilities for uniform research - reserve hussar regiments! HR 15 had dark blue attilas with silver lace. So far, so good as that could fit in with your photo (officers' dark blue was significantly lighter than ORs, apparently). HR 15 had a monogram on their shoulder straps - a Gothic W for Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands. This is plainly missing in your photo, implying that, although RHR 6 were raised by HR 15, they didn't take on all (or perhaps any) of their parent's regimental distinctions. Was RHR 6 raised after the start of the Great War. If so, I am surprised that your man is wearing a pre-war style coloured attila rather than a feldgrau one.

Dave By RHR 6, do you mean Husaren-Regiment Nr. 6 (what does the first R stand for?)? If so, this uniform, or what we can see of it, would appear to give support to that identification. The photo shows your man wearing a Parade Attila of a line hussar regiment, with the rank of subaltern or captain being indicated by the cuff and collar lace (Hagger p11). For HR Nr.6, the attila should be dark green with gold lace, which is difficult to ascertain, of course. The lack of a monogram on the shoulder strap is a further indication that he was in HR Nr. 6 as they were one of the few hussar regiments who didn't have one (Hagger p.24). Source: D.H. Hagger, Hussars and Mounted Rifles - Uniforms of the Imperial German Cavalry 1900-1914 (Almark, 1974), p.11.

Thank you. Yes, I think I know the seller your mean. I will leave it until the shock of Christmas has worn off, first, before I place my order, however

How are you finding the book, Holmes? Did you order it directly from the publisher and, if so, how difficult was that? From what I have seen here and in other fora, it is a 'must have' - but I am recoilling slightly from the cost

Thanks for posting this link, IrishGunner. There is nothing like reading contemporary newspaper accounts, if one wants to try to understand the zeitgeist. What comes cross is the appreciation, at the time, of two power blocks jockeying for position. I am not quite clear what the 'Jewish Question', as it relates to Romania, is though?

How very interesting - I wasn't expecting that! That would explain the dark colour (brown?) of his tunic.

I am very happy to.

I have just received this chap and really ought to try to digitally clean him up but I though he might be of interest so am posting him in his natural state rather than wait. I wonder if anyone might be able to a comment as to how or why an oberleutant might end up with the Iron Crown and two Military Merit medals (I guess silver and bronze, with one of them being pre-war) - not to mention a certain German award?

Ah, shoulder straps - thanks you for that tip. I also look forward to your photographic analysis of rank stars and I am sure I am not the only one who will learn something!

Thank you for your commentary, Markgraf. I always have difficulty distinguishing between the rank insignia for a Gefreiter and for a Leutnant/Oberleutnant as they seem the same or similar to me. Because of the awards, which you point out are for non-commissioned ranks, I had assumed he was a Gefreiter. How can you tell, in this particular case, that he is actually an Oberleutnant, please?

If you're only going to have three medals, you can do worse than these three

... and here he is, busy paying! Source: http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/id?91784

Thanks to the links Chris posted to original threads by servicepub, I have to say I stand corrected - and Simon/Coldstream may well be right - the Canadian Governor General's Foot Guards do indeed have their buttons grouped in pairs and have an explicit link with the Coldstream Guards!