JimZ

Cool!!! Hard work pays off!!!!! Just so happy on the rare occasions it happens! Jim

Oh.... and any chance that you can get closer so that I can read the text.... pretty please Cheers!! Jim

Interesting! Silver? Jim

He probably feels he's situated much closer to Putin and his Soviet medal watch dogs than he is to Bush and the Stolen Valor Act! As a policy I never respond to unsolicited mail unless of course it comes from someone I've dealt with in the past! I have also learnt to fear the some Ex Soviet Republics and am very very wary when rarely dealing with them. However, in this guys defence, its good to see that a few of you have actually dealt with him and say that he is at least reliable although not being an 'expert' in the field. Having said that, honest mistakes can still be very costly, especially if the guy does not give some sort of money back guarantee! Jim

Hey Kev! Interesting pics! Ruddy big beasties with one heck of a punch is all I can say! Funny how we did not know what the item was and now its skulking about in all the pics Jim

Thanks Gerd! We need more data on these Orders. Even though they are not the ones that make most hearts beat, if nothing else, compiling the serial number and award data is always good for creating the a benchmark against which the orders can at least be dated! Jim

Without a shadow of doubt! Cast copies and at first glance, the quality of the relief and suspension rings are very clear evidence that these are not original. Jim

Dear all, I have seen a number of threads lately whereby members were unsure of whether their items were original or not. I would therefore like to start this thread as a platform for anyone wanting to query an item. The rules are simple: - Post clear scans of your ODM and state your case i.e. what you are unsure of.... It is very important that scans are as clear as possible showing maximimum detail. It is already hard to tell from scans in certain cases let alone if this is out of focus or has too much flash. - Members will reply as they can giving their comments as to why they think the ODM may be original or not. Ideally scans and comparisons are to be illustrated or at least, clear explanations to be given. - Let us all remember that there is always 'some' room for debate or discussion as long as one is looking at a picture as opposed to hands on study of the ODM. The idea is to a) help members resolve at least some of their doubts and b) to also serve as a learning exercise to help avoid fakes. These threads are protected for member's use only thus limiting access to non members. I hope that this idea takes off for those who may need it. Jim

Point taken! I'll finish "Bogdan Khmelnitsky" first and will start to look at that ..... unless Andrei is already working on it! Jim

Dear All, I have seen a lot of threads discussing originality or otherwise of individual medals. I am proposing this thread in this section as a forum on which to debate originality or otherwise of dubious items. The rules are simple: - If you do not know whether your order or medal is original post it here with clear and close up pics and forum members will help throw some light on the originality of the item. - Members assisting with identification please try to be as specific as possible saying more that fake or not also helping to use comparative scans were poissible to outline your case. This thread is accessible to members only so that ensures that any pointers given out are at least restricted to forum members. I hope this idea takes off and that some of us may find it a useful exercise to learn more about how to detect original items from fakes. Regards, Jim

Awaiting the close ups.... especially of the suspension ring which was conveniently cropped.... Jim

A very sad reality for many!!!!! Jim

Well said Ed. There's always peeps to help you out in here Jim

Belaruski - I would say the lack of sharpness in the lettering as well as the little blobs of metal in the letters on the reverse are evidence of probable casting which are not seen on originals. I do not like the suspension ring much either and the obverse seems rather crude. Cast perhaps? As for these medals being commonly faked, already in 1997 PMD and PJS already said that good fakes of the medal existed. Its 2007 now.......! Pocheta - I cannot say for sure in your case. Reverse would help. However, there may also be some cast marks and lack of detail.....but the glare in that photo..... Jim

Hi OoV, I have tried to compare the medal to my books as well as online references and although the shine still does not allow for a proper comparison, I think I can safely pick on the hammer and sickle. I am attaching part of my comparison whereby I have compared the Var 2 images on www.mondvor.narod.ru to your scan. The hammer and sickle on the left is yours (OoV) and is in fact different in shape to the image on Andrei's site. I have also zoomed in and although the focus is lost, the shape of the hammer and sickle becomes more distinctive. As far as I know the Var1 has the same hammer and sickle as the Var 2 so I hardly can think that yours is another variation. Together with the fact that your medal is mounted back to front is also evidence that someone tampered with the medal and although that is not what I would base my decision, it does not help either. I hope the image says it all. My opinion anyways. Regards, Jim

Indeed....I should have said tourist as opposed to collectors. Funny how I am more of a collector when I am in Russia!! I like that emoticon Ed!! What'd the guy eat.... garlic? Jim

Its the russian response to "pick 'n mix" sweeties for collectors! Jim

Again - with that glare and reflection its hard to look at details. What I would say is that the fact the the medal is mounted back to front already means that it has been tampered with..... Yeah...maybe it just came off...... medals do that sometimes no..... I know there was a time when there were a few way back selling on Ebay and always mounted back to front. I hope this is not what of them because those were fake! I do not like it - But without better pics I would again not rush to make a call either way! Jim

Returned by the Russians...... to whom.... the French by any chance huh?? I do not see the French ever returning any of the Louvre trophies... would be jolly nice if they did although I guess.... there would be nothing much left to see then! Jim

Ralph's raised hand sometimes shields his vision Jim

So its actully a heavy duty piece of lifting machinery to raise the guns that may have destroyed the Big Bertha? - Or maybe its that piece of equipment atually detroying a big Bertha in the original pic? Jim

Precisely Darell! My point is that I was just hoping OOV did not pay a fortune for them!! Georgia & Latvia amongst other states seem to be churning out some good fakes at 'tempting prices'. The buyer thinking he's on a winner .... well frankly gets shafted! Jim

Hi Sergei, I am referring to OoV's scans. YEs it does get confusing sometimes Jim

OOV, Can you zoom closer on the medal with less reflection? Jim

I've studied the larger scans and if I had to make a call on these two medals I would say that they are both repros/fakes. Sergei is right in saying that basing oneself on scans is not the most reliable way of authenticating a medal or order. However, there are usually little tell tale marks which give can help to reaching conclusions and based on what I can see I would not go for these medals myself. Sorry if this is not what you may want to hear from us guys but its always better this way. May I ask what you paid for these medals as they are not exactly the cheapest ones around...... Jim