JimZ

Looking at the suspension ring and the handwriting I'd say its wrong. The fact that an early number could end up on a 5 sided suspension could be nothing other than the regrettable (not necessarily though!!) 1943 decree converting rectangular 4 sided suspensions to 5 sided suspensions. However, I do not like the medal itself. Jim

Does it still "die" in the desert or was it subsequently modified for better performance?...... A decade and a half seem to have passed and I never asked this question!!

Maybe ... especially if you are about to dabble in the high end orders that cost a few thousand dollars a pop!!! Seeing fakes go at high prices is very scary! A genuine mistake is one thing and often a costly learning experience. But of course, if you can avoid that by studying the information then the value of that information is indeed priceless and as important as the piece in question. Good information sources will more often than not help you in your endeavours to get yourself a good piece! Jim

As always - on the one hand there is the need to continually produce information to bona fide collectors who still lack a real updated comprehensive guide to soviet orders and medals. On the other hand, yes, the quality of fakes is improving and in producing good, reliable information inclusive of high quality scans that are so easily accessible online, one helps collectors and fakers alike. Information is a double edged blade that cuts both ways. One would say that 18 years after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the majority of variations should have been observed to and documented. Apparantly not as new variations do indeed crop up from time to time.....And sadly...amongst these new variations one comes across fakes which make the study ever more complicated.....and ever more costly when mistakes are made! Hence every bit of correct information helps and until this is bound within the covers of one book (dream a little dream!!), we need to identify and collect /collate information in almost the very same way we build our collections. Jim

Apart from the title vis a vis the medal ...... the discussion is....?

"obsessions" indicates more than one..... Jim

If I may, what exactly is the process of this restoration? Whereas the items are substantially damaged, missing sections are somehow recreated, I would imagine with some modern materials. The end result is indeed impeccable which I guess is what matters and probably the restoration itself invisible.... Is that so Nack? However out of interest, how is this restoraction carried out - how invasive is this procedure? Jim

Hi Ibrahim, yeah i figured out as much! Like i said I barely saw anything out there myself - not that I had much time I must admit as I was always there for around 5 days on biz! Doubt I'll be on that side of the world in the forseeable future but if so I'll be sure to give you a shout. Whereas I do find 3rd Reich very interesting I am more a collector of Soviet ODMs! Still, looking forward to seeing more of your stuff! Regards Jim

Missed this thread earlier. Can never say I look much at anything other than decorations but I am impressed by the absolute sheer number of cap stars!!! Impressive and compact as a collection. Interestig indeed! Jim

Been to Singapore a few times. Cannot say I saw more than a few bits and pieces of British WW1 trios. What's the market like out there if you are inro serious collecting? And what sort of stuff do you find mainly? Jim

Eric, I think you can find a better bargain than that although admittedly I have never followed the market for these orders myself. Although I have the full motherhood set, I cannot say I ever got into the earlier Maternal Glory variations.... maybe some of the other members discussing above earlier may be able to throw more light on this for you. But at 8 to 10 times the price of the normal order, I'd shy away from such a price, sadly prefering to have a military or labour order instead of a maternal one! - With no disrespect to what was once referred to as the "making the babies set" Jim

No need to apologise! It was really addressed to the seller who at the end of the day, would get much more coverage if he had to sell in the sales section (without interrupting the flow of threads) Regards, Jim

Guys....instead of having threads degenerate into auction or sales rooms, can we please keep sales to the part of the forum reserved for selling items!? Please! Jim

Less common yes so of course more desirable although I am not sure what the difference in value translates to - if any! Not really into maternal awards and what I have are there as examples. I must however say that I think the maternal orders are indeed ever so sweet!!! Jim

1993 here! Missed by it by a few years Chris hit the nail on its head. I missed out on a sh_tload of opportunities at the time although for some years I did have limited access to choice material for my collection Then again literature was also non existent at the time! Although with hindsight... blind collecting would have made sense in any case!! In fact at the time another collector I knew did just that.... bought all he could! Although I have not met him in some 12 years, I should really meet up with the guy to review his collection. I bet he's got some gems that he is not even aware of! Well....not to miss the next time round..... anyone has his eyes on China as the next possibly anachronistic communist regime awaiting for market and political refrorm? (.....interesting one huh!!!) Jim

Been absent for a while in case any one missed me ... no I did not think you did As usual I think its way too much hype about prices! Rule or exception beats me.... but far too many exceptions of late methinks!! I do not worry. I just think that it makes for more sensible buying and of course, more waiting to find good opportunities to maximise available funds!! Regarding other comments on this thread - I think that it is good to see that some of the orders are going back home to their motherland. Lets face it, love them as much as we do its part of Russian heritage and it therefore does not sadden me to know that a group or order went to a Russian collector. Now.... whether he reseaches them or not - I of course like to think that they are more than just shiny trinkets to any collector! But lets be honest - if one is interested in pure research one can order anything one wants without having the order in hand. A serial number at random can make for good research too without necessarily having the medal.... lets see....research for the Order of Glory 1st class numbered say 35 is interesting with or without the order itself in any case! Of course the order plus research is much better when they come together.... but in any case.... not an argument to say that homebound items become unresearchable! Jim

That glory has seen a bit of wear and tear huh..... excess polishing? Considering it should date end of 60's ........... Never seen one with ALL detail on the tower wiped totally clean! All the best Dan. Jim

"Some" Robin? Wow.... nice to see "more" Jim

Oh... and interestingly enough that was a detail I totally missed when I looked it up earlier!! (<-- blushing smiley)....... and hoping that nobody noticed He he! Jim

Very true indeed actually. Although given that we are speaking of a "prototype" anything could be possible. Surprisingly that if this is an "original prototype" its in private hands, it just maybe failed to make it into Durov's 2005 book for some reason or other Someone...somwhere knows the reasons Jim

Very very interesting reading Christophe. One should however try to get a copy of the 1943 decree to read through it and see if it throws any light in the form of statements it may make on what goes left, right, screwback or on suspention. But I am (at heart) not expecting any real logic at the end of the day - look at it as you will there is a wide plethora of suspensions as you mentioned with the small red rectangular suspensions of the HSU and HSL and the later DSM 1st and 2nd and the lenin centinery medal. Add on the regular 5 sided suspensions, the screwback orders and put it all together..... can look tidy until u add on the DSM and the Lenin centineries..... Jim

Whatever!! Enjoy reading your own posts sir.

Christian, I will not re-invent the wheel. Its all been said!! What I will add is that a T2 Nevsky in good condition can sell where it wants! Well done to those liquidating their investments.... (what a sad thing to call a collection an investment!!) However, my personal ideas as to the Nevsky on this thread and its value remain unchanged even knowing where one in good condition just sold at. With regards to insurance, remember there is such a thing as insurance fraud. Of course not if you have expert friends to watch your back in such event. But then why ask the forum members for valutaions? As of this post, I will be keeping out of threads that are nothing but a one way monlogue .... and this thread seems to have been one of thise almost from its very outset! Very disappointed! Jim

Ed, granted that the collection of ODMs is to most more than just the collection of "things". But again, many of us chose to look at the stories behind the pieces that we collect as opposed to the ones that did not make it. My comments were bearing that in mind. From a historical point of view of the USSR every detail and every stone left unturned is a missed opportunity to learn more..... and there are surely many stones left to turn in such a great, historically abd culturally rich country. Jim

I actually just did take some long time of my job but it really does not help speed up things!! With another hundred and one things to do nevertheless, the army only goes as fast as its slowest soldier. Suvorov and Khmelnitsky in the pipeline....... Andrei - Bolshoye spasibo! Myedlenno no vyerno u nas vsye poluchitsya!!! Jim