JimZ

And Royal marine para's badge posted on http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=16476&st=40 but reposted her for the purposes of this thread Jim

Two para items on my end.... The first is a weird stabrite bagde that came all the way from Aldershot. I say weird as its obviously some sort of silver alloy (probably) but not the usually horrid stabrite sort! Apoloigies for the lack of focus and escessive reflection - but its the only pic on my files. I once had one with the King's crown which I lost. I have been heart broken ever since especially since it was given to me by a friend back in the scouts days who would, years later lose his life in a tragic air accident.

http://www.russianwarrior.com/STMMain.htm?...story.htm&1 Before knarf changes the subject - if you are interested in reading up on the foxtrot class submarine please check the above link. And remember that we owe Arkhipov much more than we think .... had he been a gung ho ruskie "cowboy" like his captain, USSR may have launched the nuclear tipped torpedo in retaliation to the American's shots, which would have destroyed the carrier and destroyers, this would have probably trigerred a similar and stronger response from the Americans!! Nuclear holocaust!! Jim

Check the wiki link for more details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Alexandrovich_Arkhipov My next would have been the class of the submarine i.e. Project 641 class knwon to Nato as Foxtrot class. But that would have made the search far too easy Was starting to worry about how well known this incident was. Also I am sure that Tom Clancy was taking notes when this happenned. Jim

Well done Frank The answer is indeed: 1) Commander Vasili Alexandrovich Arkhipov 2) October 27th 1962 - Cuba 3a) On October 27th 1962 during the Cuban Missile Crisis, a group of 11 United States Navy destroyers headed by the aircraft carrier USS Randolph entrapped Soviet Foxtrot class Submarine B-59 near Cuba and started dropping depth charges. Allegedly, the captain of the submarine, Valentin Grigorievitch Savitsky, believing that a war might already have started, prepared to launch a retaliatory nuclear-tipped torpedo. 3b) Captain Savitsky and Political Officer Ivan Semonovich Maslennikov together with Arkhipov were entitled to launch this torpedo if they agreed unanimously to do so. An argument broke out among the three, in which only Arkhipov was against making the attack. 3c) Eventually Captain Savitsky was persuaded to surface the submarine and await orders from Moscow. The nuclear war which presumably would have ensued as a result of a Soviet first strike was averted. 4) At the conference commemorating the 40th anniversary of the Cuban Missile Crisis held in Havana on October 13, 2002, Robert McNamara admitted that nuclear war had come much closer than people had thought. Thomas Blanton, director of the National Security Archive, said that "a guy called Vasili Arkhipov saved the world."

Oh gee... that is not a real historical event???!!! Well I was going to put that up in the previous post specifically saying "And if you are wondering, its not clancy's hunt for red October!!!)" Lots of similarities indeed jim

Again very interesting Johnsy. Whereas some of the badges have remained largely the same like say the PTI, the stoker, the cook and the steward as well as the electrical technician... its interesing to see the gunships instead of planes. I must admit never having seen anything like the "bunting Tos ser's" badge or the "Dorggy's". I have also never seen a Mine Warefare patch! You know, that gunship on the patch is evolution of the ever changing face of warfare! I mean ....... ... from no patch ... ... to prop ... ... to jet ... ... to helo ... Talk of the evolution of weapons over the past century!!! Jim

I do in fact have the "Rachmaninov plays Rachmaninov" CD for piano concertos 2 and 3. Used to spend long times listening to it when I was in Italy many years ago.... You are on the right track as Key is indicative to the launching nuclear tipped missiles or torpedoes. So lets recap what we have so far..... I was a Submarine officer, a gentleman and some might say, a hero. Under enemy fire I disagreed with retaliation. Retaliation would have unleashed hell. I had a key which I would not use. I would not agree to use it. I could not agree to use it. Reason prevailed and my name is remembered. 1) Who am I and what was my rank? 2) Where and when did we come under enemy fire? 3) Briefly a) how did the situation develop; b) Who did I disagree with? C) What solution was reached? 4) Many years after my heroic stand, how would one enemy representative refer to me? What we have is a submarine that came under enemy fire .... whether direct or just to raise the sub is immaterial when you are submerged and have not got contact with your superiors. Believeing the worst, the sub was in a position to retaliate. They however did not because of our officer! Now that should help you as there are not as many cold war incidents (the key inidicates nuclear weapons and hence post ww2 period) that actually escalated to actually firing at a russian sub. Is this incident so obscure that few know about it? Jim

One of the best I have been to actually! Gavrilov was not scheduled to play originally but he is an excellent first rate pianist ... and then playing Rachmaninov's 3rd was swell!! Now do I rank him with Yevgeny Kissin ... or Helene Grimaud (whom I heard plating Rach's 2nd piano concerto last year) ... I would think that these are indeed amongst the finest contemporary pianists!!! .... Now as for the orchestra I was very impressed by their discipline as well as the composer of their young but brilliant conductor. When they came to play Tchaikovsky the orchestra was 120 people strong..... I think the crowd spent a good ten minutes applauding them. They are indeed a must! OK back to the Quiz this next hint will throw light on the period and should help starting to narrow down the incident in question. Our naval officer would have been in possesion of a KEY Think....why a key.... what for? Hope this starts to widen things a bit. Jim

Yep ... a real navy officer........ I am off to a Rachmaninov and Tchiakovsky Concert in the KKL at Luzern..... If I am not back too late I'll drop another hint when I return ..... Jim

Terrible indeed. How that could could even convince a naive non collector is beyond me. I mean even if one looks around and does a bit of homework, its not that hard to draw the right conclusions! Jim

Considering the previous one I asked... No its not marshal Zhukov.... nor was he involved in any way. Of course next hint will explain why...... Next hint....... the gentleman in question is a Naval Officer Jim

Hi Leigh Kitchen, Thanks for the info. So not to keep you in suspense..... I had sold all badges with rifles/muskets so I am afraid I cannot throw it your way! I always believed it to be an older variation of the other two crossed rifle badges without slings but with magazines..... of course based on the magazines!!! But I also considered the possibility that these might signify something different. At least that question is resolved. Like i said in the previous post..... you really need to dig around to find out what some of these badges are or why they are the way they are. Too tiring for me to pursue.... epsecially given the other areas of collecting I was pursuing at the time! What can I say - nothing nicer than being streamlined on one area.... of course you do kick yourself in the behind sometimes when u sell something you had and discover it was something more interesting then first met the eye! But that's the way it goes as well! Sorry again about that marksman badge!!! Jim

Hiya Johnsy! Thanks for the posts. Yes they are indeed British but from what I know the Australian and British systems are rather similar. There are a few of them for which I absolutely had no clue as to what trade they represent. The problem with these badges is that they are virtually never ending to collect. If you consider the compliment of the larger ships and the hundreds of trades on each vessel, it virtually becomes impossible to collect them all. Mind you, that's the fun part of collecting them!!! But on the other hand, when u end up buying a patch which you cannot research and which nobody seems to know what it relates to, it does start to get frustrating! After all.... is it really a navy patch or not???? Colelcting blind is never good and when you lack the experience and exertise....well..... In any case, thanks for throwing some further light on these badges.... As for the Australian navy, I only had one badge which i posted...... can you confirm that u use the jet configuration instead of the prop..... I am just wondering if the story I posted with that badge holds water..... Jim

Almost 24 hours since posting my question. Should I start to drop the odd hint? Jim

I think that 1814 is probably part of the Napoleonic wars but I do not think that Switzerland or cantons thereof were involved in them? Or were they? Of course, if I was a Swiss guy living in a war stricken area I might have sufficient devotion to the miraculous ladyback home to promise her an ex voto. I am really curious to find out if these came from within the neighbourhood or possibly from further afar. Thanks for the help Jim

I cannot make out the German on these 2 ex votos and the first one was higher up than the second one. I was rather intrigued by them.... and I thought some of you gents here could help me out with the German as well as any other info that you could throw my way! Next time I am there.... I will try to get a better pic if required! Thanks!

Second up:

But upon looking closer two of the caught my eye..... I mean... why was the sky raining grenades and why did these ex votos carry the year 1814. First up:

Inside are a number of ex votos to the Black Madonna of Einseideln......

I was visiting the abbey of Einsiedeln (Switzerland) as I was doing the tourist guide thing last week. I've been there a few times and its truly beautiful. Despite its austere outside, it is highly baroque on the inside and just breathtaking, superceding even the Monastery of Melk in Austria with its beauty!

Oh and if I may add... the handling of all paper items with clean cotton gloves! Paper, especially the older kind is extremely absorbant and anything from natural oils to any grease or residual chemicals left on one's hands.... including humidity can be enough to permanently scar your docs! jim

Yes red cross... again its acid free, acid free, acid free ... together with proper climate control and avoidance of exposure to any other elements including sunlight or sunlit areas/rooms which significantly change temperatures during the day. Jim

Oh yes!! Indeed. Not to side track on the thread but I once went into the guy's store room. It was .Walked out with 2 unissued and mint pith helmets and a whole heap of badges as well as some ribbons of my own. All british! But you would never expect that behind a dingy door in a four storey buliding, that looks just like a large old house was a flock of tailors and sewing machines churning out what will one day be viewed (some of which already are) as lovely collectibles! Jim

Looking at your posted link I see Republic of India Not the same thing as India as a British colony!!!! (Tell that to the Indians!!) Jim