David B 1812

During my research of personnel files which I get for medals / groups in my collection, I find references (usually postings) to the "X" List. I have a number of questions to ask this Forum, in the hope that I can get AUTHORATATIVE answers, please. Q ONE: Using the internet, I could only find, after what I thought was quite a good search, the X-Lists for Canada and New Zealand. The one I was really looking for was the X-List for South Africa. DOES ANY MEMBER have the proper, correct X-List for South Africa, please. Q TWO: I have noticed that the Canadian and New Zealand X-Lists DO NOT AGREE. They are not the same. It is possible, of course, that whoever posted the lists on the Internet made an error. I cannot be sure. Not everything on the Internet should be taken as true, or correct. SHOULD these lists in fact be the same? Q THREE: Does any member of this group KNOW if the X-Lists for ALL ALLIED country personnel files are exactly the SAME? In other words, does / did GB; South Africa; Australia; Canada; India; New Zealand, etc use the SAME X-Lists? Q FOUR: Can any one or more members please let me have the X-LIst for South Africa, and, indeed, for other Allied countries, IF the lists are in fact not exactly the same. Or please give me the Internet reference source as to where I can find such X-List (or Lists). Additional note: I think that there was also a "Y-List" (and possibly even a "Z-List") - what can you tell me about these, please? Thank you all, for your time. Best wishes, David R. BENNETT Durban =========================

Rumours like "..... David B is no longer with us ...... " are incorrect and much exaggerated............... Here I am - alive, STILL with you, and in reasonable health.......... David B 1812 ===============================================================================

Dear Geoffrey, Capt S.C.W. Cruickshank was first commissioned in the Tank Corps in May 1917, I think, IF I understand this LG entry correctly: --------------------------------------------------------------- L.G. # 30593 (Suppl) 23 March 1918, pg 3698 : Under a sub-heading: TANK CORPS - The undermentioned temp. 2nd Lts to be temp 2nd Lts. :- S.C.W. Cruickshank, from a Serv. Bn,. R.Scots. 31 Dec 1917, with seniority 30 May 1917 --------------------------------------------------------------------- But in any event, yes I still have his trio in my collection and ANY further information which you can add to my meagre knowledge of this man, WOULD BE VERY WELCOME, thank you, Geoffrey. David B 1812

I am having severe technical problems loading my last two photos - and I don't know why............ "K" is an ordinary .jpeg file of 6.86kb and "M" is an ordinary .jpeg file of 16.0kb and try as I might, I cannot get them to load HELP !!!!!!!!

For some reason I cannot get photos "K" and "M" to load but I am trying........................

The Wild Geese Badge or Patch as worn by: Col. Mad Mike Hoare and 5 Commando 1964 / 1965 In an effort to identify what I think are ORIGINAL badges (or patches) I have now done some considerable research and comparison, using my 53 years of skill as a philatelist (where much of ones time is spent looking at detail and difference) and I think what appears below may now be considered as a reasonably definitive study and analysis of the subject: So I have ordered the photographs alphabetically, A, B, C, D, E, and so forth. Photo A: Col Mike Hoare, showing the Wild Geese / 5 Commando badge worn here on his right upper shirt sleeve. Photo B: Col Hoare, same uniform, in a overexposed photo, where the badge is barely visible, but nevertheless, present. Photo C: An ORIGINAL BADGE, from the BENNETT Collection. It is important to note the stitch pattern on the second vertical leg of the first M of Commando. Also the position of the right and left wings of the goose, and the tail and legs. And the black stich in the right wing. Only two lines of black stitching in the right wing. Also the eye of the goose appearing as a black dot. The stitching of the lettering of the badge does not have a crisp finish, as do the copies. Photo D: Another ORIGINAL found for sale on the internet for GBP 420. The badge shows signs of having been used and the removed from a garment, by the visible frayed edges and loose stitching. The badge displays ALL the same characteristics of the badge in Photo C. Photo E: This is a third ORIGINAL again with exactly the same characteristics of the two badges illustrated in C and D. Again, with frayed edges and stitching. Appeared for sale on the internet, along with some other Wild Geese / 5 Commando memorabilia and papers, including a beret and was priced at S.A. Rand 8,500 Photo F: A Wild Geese copy - it appears to be a combination of screen printing and embroidery. The goose is in black, and the overall badge is on a camouflage background. Seen on many websites, for sale at prices which vary from Au$25 to US$26. Photo G: A copy of the Wild Geese patch, more similar to an original in colouring, but the goose is incorrect. The right wing has seven lines of black stitching (only two on the original). The left wing, tail and leg positions are incorrect, as is the position of the eye. The lettering is also very different. Prices for this copy vary from US$15 to C$18. Photo H: Yet a third type of copy. Although superficially similar to G above, the wing pattern is different. The upper right wing top feather is MUCH more square. Also the neck is thinner, and appears longer, and the feet are less prominent. Photo I: Here, just to PROVE that badge F is a copy, it appears here, printed on the very same camouflage background, but with a SECOND Wild Goose variation one which apparently is intended to represent an island note the sea, islands and palm trees. This is probably an attempt to refer to the foray of Col. Hoare and a group of mercenaries to the Seychelles in 1978. Leading what were supposed to be a group of beer drinking tourists to the islands, Col. Hoare called the group: Ye Ancient Order of Froth Blowers. In any event, the coup failed, they were all arrested and jailed. That the second (lower) badge makes reference to the Wild Geese in name and also in illustration just shows the ignorance of the makers of the copy, when no such names were used in the operation. This badge is advertised at US$45; Au$47 and GBP30 Photo J: A variation of the lower Wild Geese Island badge, this time sold alone, (without the 5 Commando copy) and for around US$15. Photo K: A Wild Geese variation probably not made with intention to deceive, and possibly having commemorative purpose. May not even be related to the 5 Commando Wild Geese. No price. Photo L: Another Wild Geese embroidered badge, but NOT intended to be an exact copy. Advertised and sold as a badge intended to commemorate and celebrate the Wild Geese. Sold for S.A. Rand 180. Photo M: This is what appears to be not a patch type badge, but very probably a blazer pocket badge. It alludes to 5 Commando and has a very poor rendition of the flying Wild Goose with only one wing. The badge also shows two knives or bayonets, with the dates 1964 1965. Finally in a wreath below (and very indistinct) appears what I take to read: "Armee Natcionale Congolese" or something similar. Sold on the internet for S.A. Rand 1,060 And so, members, that concludes my study on the Wild Geese / 5 Commando badge, or arm-patch, if you prefer. Any questions, comments or opinion would be welcome. David B 1812 David B 1812

Thanks v much 'Gunner 1' for that. I think the incorrect number is my typo. But you have given me a bit of interesting info I was not aware of, which I appreciate. DB Anybody else know anything? ?

Wow!!! You must have a serious reference library, Paul Wood ?

Dear "U-M", Ah, I see - my apologies also for misunderstanding you, too. Sorry. No, as far as I am aware this IS an original - you should see the absolute rubbish for sale on the internet, as "supposed" badges. Many of them not even close, nor good copies - and yet people must still be buying them.............and making them....... so it is a market, very largely, of poor copies.......... And so I was wondering if any other members on the site had one. I don't think that they are commonly found. By the way, I did read up on the link you posted on the mercenaries in Angola in the '70s. Very interesting. Appear to be a merciless, blood-thirsty bunch, I must say. It is difficult to imagine some of the things that occurred there, and some of the things they did...... Best wishes, DB

Ulsterman wrote: "Whoa- I had no idea originals even existed." ---------------------------------------------------------------- What makes you say that? What is Col Hoare wearing in the photo? And if not an "original" - the same as I have, why would the Founder of the Regiment be wearing a 'copy' of the badge of his own Regiment? And if Col Hoare is not wearing an 'original' "Wild Geese" badge, then what in your opinion is he wearing?

Just a small correction to the above - from my "Dictionary of Military Terms, Definitions and Abbreviations" Z.A.D.K. (Zuid Afrikaansche Dieu Korps)... this is INCORRECT............ the CORRECT abbreviation is: ZADK = Zuid Afrikaanse Diens Korps (S.A. Service Corps) 1914 – 1918, on a bilingual Victory Medal. All the best

Does anyone know anything about a chap who was in the 161 Seige Bty R.G.A. He was A-Sjt (M2-118071) L. Crawford. I know that he was K.I.A. from the CWGC website, and I have his BWM only - the AVM is missing. Can any of you chaps tell me anything more about Crawford, please? How /when / where he was K.I.A. for example? Any any other info would be most welcome. Thank you.

Another wounded South African soldier unfotunately died a couple of days ago - total dead - now 14.

COL. 'Mad' MIKE HOARE - Commanding Officer of 5 COMMANDO Battalion, the 'WILD GEESE' Born in India,and educated in England, Mike Hoare served in the British Army in an armoured corps in North Africa in WWII attaining the rank of Captain. Hoare first became involved in the Belgian Congo in 1960-61 as a mercenary with "4 Commando" in actions in the Katanga Province. The 'Wild Geese' saw action in the BELGIAN CONGO in 1964-65 - in support of the Belgian Forces against the terrorist groups who were attacking and killing innocent local Congolese and Belgian civilians at that time, including missionary nuns and priests giving service to the locals in the Belgian Congo. Col. Hoare is shown here, wearing his full undress uniform, and the famous "5 Commando / Wild Geese" shoulder patch can be clearly seen, sewn on the Colonel's shirt. This badge can be found all over the internet in many COPIED and, I suppose, fraudulent forms, held out to be 'Wild Geese' badges. There can only have been a small number of original badges - as far as I am aware, 5 Commando, as a Regiment, originally only had 300 or so men, and we have no guarantee that all their badges survived. However, later in 1964 and into 1965, the Commando became a two-battalion force. Below is an original badge, from my collection, STILL sewn onto the khaki shirt from which it was cut. DOES any GMIC member have experience of this badge, or can anyone provide further information, for me please? Also does anyone know the value of this, what I suspect to be, a very rarely found (in the original state) badge? David B 1812 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Peter BHC Ah!! At last - someone who sees, and understands my point. Thank you. Best wishes, David B

No problem, Paul. It was a kind thought, anyway. Thanks, David B --------------------

Hi Will and Brett, The Smythe / Reid connection and your Smythe items. I have known Brett for well over twenty years now and I fully understand his present position and honesty about the items remaining where they are. I am a person who has been connected with Museums for more than 30 years now. At one time on the Old Fort (Durban) Military Museum Advisory Board. I have been Chairman of the Durban Natural Science Museum Trust Board since 1994 (as I recall) and a member since before that. I am still Chairman. With Brett, in 1989 we founded the Durban Natural Science Museum Friends Society. I am now a Life Member. I also currently serve on the Durban Local History Museums Trust Board, and I am also a member of the KZN Heritage Foundation, and have been the Chairman of the Durban Heritage Trust since 1989. I am a Life Member of the S.A. Museums Association. I know a bit about museums, I think. I have decided, and I have advised my family that when I pass on, whatever collections they do not want (and I have many, assorted collections), must be sold / auctioned to OTHER collectors (after all, if you want to PAY for something, the chances are that you WANT it, and will probably CARE for it). I have advised them NOT do give or donate ANYTHING to ANY South African Museum. Since the advent of the "new Rainbow/Transparent Nation of South Africa" I have seen personally, and know of personally, many valuable museum items which have "gone missing" or have been subject to "affirmative shopping" or have "grown legs" or have otherwise "left" museum collections all over South Africa. And the SAME goes for the very valuable collections of some of our MAJOR MILITARY REGIMENTS in South Africa. The A.N.C. presently have an ongoing policy where very white officer of any substantial rank, including MOST Commanding Officers of most of the leading regiments (who are usually men with decades of proper military experience, and who are well versed in military ettiquette, and in proper regimental procedure and history) are being replaced, increasingly by so-called A.N.C. "cadres" - more or less as a "reward" for their loyal support. That they know little or nothing about military matters, appears not to be important to the ANC. Just get the whites out. Recently an ANC man was apppointed as Commanding Officer of a well-known local regiment. At the first big, official regimental function, wanting to "look the part" this man went into the regimental museum and removed the rather impressive medal group of a recently passed on Padre of that Regiment - who had decades of service with the Regiment, and a wonderful group of medals. The padre was well known to me, personally, and was a Client of mine, professionally. Anyway as soon as this ANC man appeared at the function, wearing the stolen medals, he was immediately found out. The matter hit the press, of course and the Officer denied theft. He even denied wearing the medals, saying that he had been "framed". An investigation started, during which time the group of medals have conveniently disappeared off the face of the earth, and, as the investigation proceeded higher and higher within the SADF the more it has been suppressed, so much so, that it now appears to have been "swept under the carpet" completely..... and what is worse, the thief remains 'free' and unpunished, which is normal ANC policy, anyway. I have decided, that until matters improve, I WILL NOT, and NOR WILL MY FAMILY donate so much as a matchstick to ANY SOUTH AFRICAN MUSEUM, or ANY SOUTH AFRICAN REGIMENTAL MUSEUM. And so Will, with that background, if you cannot find someone reliable and who actually CARES (and Brett certainly would have, if he had the space), about any part of your collection, rather sell it or hold onto it. Just do not give it away to a South Africa Government run institution. The chances of it being lost, stolen, broken, destroyed or sold on are excellent. Best wishes, David

Will - If you go to "Collector's Image Gallery" on this website, then to "Member's Showcase & Collections" then to Page 1 - where you will see: "Bennett Medal Collection" here, I have 41 images of some of my Medal and Badge collection, Then, just below that, is the "Bennett Photo and Document Collection" where there are 58 photos of documents and photos of varying interest. From the Photo of Field Marshal Jan Smuts (which comes from F/Sgt Williamson - actually it is a copy of a famous painting of Smuts, which Williamson had) through the next dozen or so photos and documents - you will find that these all relate to Williamson. Those are what I have put on the site, but there is much more. I have not illustrated F/Sgt Williamson's medals on the "Medal" site because it is a very ordinary, typical South African WWII group - i.e.: 39-45 Star; Africa Star; Italy Star; 39-45 War Medal; Africa Service Medal. So not really of any great interest. What IS interesting, however (and PROVED by me having Williamson's military service papers and file), is that despite the fact that he served in the S.A.A.F. for 5+ years in the war (Dec 1940 to Jan 1946) and then again from Feb 1950 until he retired in Feb 1974 - giving total service of a little over 29 years, HE DID NOT SEEM TO QUALIFY FOR ANY type of LONG SERVICE AWARD??? Seems strange, but true. No LS medal of any type present, and no mention of one in his papers. Strange as many men with far less than 29 years service, including war service which, usually would count double, DO HAVE a LS&GC or an Efficiency Medal or a John Chard Medal. But not F/Sgt Williamson. When he signed up in 1950 (i.e. for the second time) he did so as an "Air Mechanic" - the S.A. Air Force equivalent of a Private in those days. In 1952 promoted to Air Corporal. In 1962 promoted to Air Sergeant In 1966 promoted to Flight Sergeant In 1971 promoted to W.O.II - BUT with a later note showing that this was deleted (with no reason stated) - leaving Williamson as a Flight Sergeant. He then retired in February, 1974. He died in 1997 aged 75. If you look at Williamson's photos, he seems to have an "attitude" about him. I never met the man, but just looking at his photos, the way he combed his hair, the way he posed, the way he wore his cap or hat - he seems to have had a "attitude" about him. One of the photos shows him with an upturned cap in his hand, in Rome, if I recall correctly, with the note: "Cap in left hand with cakes and sweets for girls to barter". Barter for what, one wonders? (Rhetorically, of course) I think that he rather fancied himself as a bit of a "ladies man" and also that he may well have had a bit of an "attitude" against authority. No proof, of course, but it is just my impression, when looking at all his photos. This MAY EXPLAIN why his promotion was reversed, and why there is no long service or efficiency medal. Maybe he just did not deserve one ???? I can also tell you that although not illustrated in my "Album" I have a VERY OLD original photograph from 1897 of Williamson's mother, as a baby, and her mother, i.e. Williamson's grandmother. It is a professionally taken and mounted photo, taken by the photographer Caney, in Natal, and on the reverse is noted " To Ellen, with love and kisses. Lady Bullier and Irene Bulleier, born 2nd June 1897. Photo taken 3rd December 1897". And so from this, we can see that Williamson's grandmother was a "LADY Bullier" (We don't know who "Ellen" was). Then there is a photo of Williamson's mother, Irene. Taken, again, professionally, by Henry Kisch, Photographer, Ladysmith. Written on the reverse is: "To dear Aunt Ellen with love and kisses. Miss Irene Bulleier aged 4 years, 2 June 1901" We cannot say for sure, but there is every possibility that Irene Bulleier and her mother Lady Bulleier having been in Ladysmith, Natal in June 1901, may also have been present in the town during the actual SEIGE of LADYSMITH, which was, as we know, from 30 October 1899 to 28 February 1900. Maybe. Williamson's collection also contained another professionally posed and taken photograph, which was of the wedding, in 1920 of his parents. Frederick Peter Williamson and Irene Winifred Bulleier. Then collection also contains his Baptism Certicate, his 1946 "Demob" certificate (showing, then, by the way that his character was recorded as being "Very Good"), his 1946 Apprenticeship Certificate as a Motor Mechanic, his S.A.D.F. Certificate, upon his discharge, on 28 Feb. 1974, confirming his service since 3 February 1950, that his last unit was 5 Sdn. in Durban, that his medals were the five I earlier listed, above, and that he had no "Special military qualifications" and no "Honourably mentioned in despatches or commendations" and that his final rank was indeed, that of F/Sgt. The collection also has a number of official function card invitations, Christmas cards and so on and includes a very interesting card, which is of a Spanish girl, holding flowers in her hand, and athough it is on card, the headress, flowers, dress and apron of the Spanish girl is actually embroidered in real cotton or silk. Very nice. There are also quite a number of photographs (some without captions or notes, alas), of various and different aircraft which I suppose he worked on and serviced, as well as casual photos of Williamson in Mogadishu, and in Egypt, as well as in Italy. Althogether there are 46 A4 pages - now mounted as an "Album" of information, documents and photographs of Williamson and his life. A nice collection. Best wishes. David B

By the way, just for additional interest, here is a photo of W.O.1 'Harry' PETRIE (right) with a couple of his mates, at 'Delta Barrages' Cairo, in May 1943. And, also a photo of some of the certifcates and awards, etc. made to Petrie during his 44 year military service career - 1914 - 1958. Not many men have such long, proven, documented careers, I think. David B 1812

Thank you Paul......... AO's ?? Army Orders? But no, I do not have them, and so I would sincerely appreciate your very kind offer, thank you. And thank you for your comments. BW David B 1812

Any EFFICIENCY MEDAL experts out there? This post is about the following medals, using the “Medal Yearbook 2013” as a reference: No 234 The TERRITORIAL FORCE EFFICIENCY Medal 1908 No 235 The TERRITORIAL EFFICIENCY Medal 1921, and, No 237 The EFFICIENCY MEDAL (Territorial) 1930 And you will note, in the respective prices quotations for these medals, that the first medal, the Territorial Force Efficiency Medal has a price quoted for a single medal £120 to £140. Also a price for the medal with ONE Bar - £170 to £200, and then for TWO Bars, the price moves up to £220 to £260. In other words, the Two Bar Territorial Force Efficiency Medal seems to be valued at TWICE the price of the single medal. Then we move to the next two medals – the Territorial Efficiency Medal and the Efficiency Medal (Territorial). Both have single medal price quotations, but NEITHER has a price quotation for First or Second Bar specimens. Now see the next section……………. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have, in my medal collection, what I believe to be a scarce and unusual twelve Medal Group, covering the forty-four year period of service from 1914 to 1958 of: 13/727 2/Lt H. PETRIE, 13th East Yorkshire Regiment (for 1914-1918) and later, 433999 W.O.1 in the Royal Armoured Corps, for 1939-1945. With interwar and post WWII service with the East Yorkshire Yeomanry. The MILITARY MEDAL won by (then) Sergt. H. Petrie was for: "Awarded the Military Medal for displaying gallantry while leading a bombing raid on enemy trenches" The Twelve Medal Group (illustrated here) consists of: Military Medal (GVR) 1914-1915 Star British War Medal 1914 – 1920 Victory Medal 1914 – 1919 (with M.I.D.) 1939 – 1945 Star Africa Star Italy Star France and Germany Star (with Clasp: Atlantic) Defence Medal War Medal 1939 – 1945 Coronation Medal, 1953 (EIIR) Efficiency Medal (Territorial)(GVIR – tB)(with Two Bars) Now, some questions arise: We can see that the above Efficiency Medal (Territorial) was issued with TWO Bars. If we examine the conditions of issue of the medal, we know that additional periods of service are rewarded with the issue of further Bars. So, why does the Medal Yearbook NOT quote prices for an additional One, or (as in this example) TWO Bars? Might the answer be that both One and Two Bar examples of the Efficiency Medal (Territorial) are so numerous and common in the market, that there is no price premium for the medal with either one or two Bars? OR, Is it possible that One and particularly Two Bar Efficiency Medals (Territorial) are very scarce and uncommon – so much so that very few medals ever come up for sale amongst the panel of medal dealers and auction houses who, as a group, contribute to the making of the Medal Yearbook prices ? OR Is there some technical / historic reason for this lack of pricing? OR Any other comments, amongst the Members out there?? Would any of you care to venture a value estimate for the One and Two Bar Efficiency Medal (Territorial) ?? Bearing in mind the price structure for the 1908 version, and the fact that the single medal of the 1930 version is valued at £50 to £85 at present. I would be pleased to learn of your views / comments on this question. Thank you, David B 1812 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What a wonderful collection Brian. Very well done. And interesting too........ BW David B 1812

Thanks for that additional information, Will. Of course I don't believe that there are only three such badges, as it would be impossible to believe that a die would be so engraved, set up, etc etc and then only three badges made. There are obviously more, but because we don't see them everyday, probably not that many around. So I am happy with Gavin's description of "relatively rare". And besides which, I wonder how many 'qualified' Navigator / Air Gunners there were in the S.A.A.F. in 1937. Not many I would think.................. Anyway, when I bought F/Sgt Williamson's medals, for the "going price" at that time, from his family, I got a huge bonus, when this SAAF badge was included, plus wartime money, stamps, photographs, and much other related items besides. Best wishes, David B 1812

Hi Brett - Your Reid collection is also very interesting, and most beautifully presented. Indeed the presentation is far better than one sees in many museums, and including the S.A. Museum of Military History, and we could all use your form of presentation as a sort of "template" to follow for style, layout and neatness. Very nice, indeed. Best wishes, David B 1812

It would be interesting to know IF any South Africans, apart from those in, or seconded to, any British forces, for example, the R.N. or the R.A.F. qualified for either the new Star, or the Bomber Command Clasp. Most South Africans in the R.N. were those with "British" ancestry, who chose to join the R.N. rather than the S.A. Navy. Likewise, South African Air Force activities were confined, so far as I am aware, to East and North Africa, and to Italy, Greece and the Middle-East, and not to North-Western Europe. Those South Africans who were active in N.W. Europe, like 'Sailor' Malan, DSO and Bar, DFC and Bar; Chris le Roux, DFC and Two Bars; John Nettleton, VC; and Edwin Swales VC and DFC were all with, or had been seconded to R.A.F. Squadrons. Likewise there may well have been other South Africans in the British Army or the Royal Navy who may have qualified. (And yes I am aware that Malan and le Roux would not have qualified for the Clasp, as they were fighter pilots, and not with bomber squadrons). BUT were there any South Africans, in the S.A.D.F. who qualified for either the Arctic Star or the Bomber Command clasp, I wonder?? I know that there WERE South Africans who were later involved in the famous Berlin Air Lift - which if you think about it, was not much different from the Arctic supplies to the Russians. I wonder how long it will be before (or, if at all), the British authorities decide to follow the American example, for a medal for the Berlin Airlift? (Or a clasp). A couple of interesting questions, I think. Any ideas? Actually, to take this matter further, many Brits were so dis-satisfied with the Second World War awards they received, or in many cases "did not receive", that they "invented" their own UNOFFICIAL MEDALS and AWARDS, through various veteran associations, mainly. Reference to the Token Books "Medal Yearbook" will reveal some interesting UNOFFICIAL MEDALS, such as: The NORMANDY Campaign Medal; the ARCTIC Campaign Medal; The MERCHANT NAVAL Service Medal; The ALLIED EX-POW Medal; The SUEZ Canal Zone Medal; The JORDAN Service Medal; the HONG KONG Service Medal, the BRITISH FORCES IN GERMANY Medal, The NORTH AFRICAN Service Medal, The DUNKIRK Medal; the BOMBER COMMAND Medal, The ARABIAN Service Medal and so forth......... Many of these 'Unofficial' Medals ARE in fact already covered by official medals, clasps or awards (but not all) and so one wonders why it was felt necessary to have the unofficial awards at all?? Particularly as they are NOT sanctioned for wear in uniform, or for any "official" use........ And futhermore, who would actually BUY and WEAR these "unofficial" medals / awards, if they are known to be unofficial and NOT acceptable for wear. I wonder? But an interesting complication, nevertheless. David B 1812