Paul C

Glenn, Thanks for the post. Yes, something is wrong. I could not find him in any RL. I rather doubt he is the correct guy as I find no bayern or lippe connections in any of his listings, although the HH medal makes sense. Also were did the Wf3a come from. I looked through some of my Wurtt. State and Court books and could not find him. The search continues.

Thanks for the replies and help. I'll keep you posted.

I have tried to find Richard Berends in my earlier ranklists since he lists that he is a a.D. Hptm. I tried the 1890 first since I saw the date of 14.9.65. I thought this was a birthday but then realized the the abbreviation is not geb. but daf. Was is the daf. abbreviation? Any suggestion when he was in the Army? I would like to see if he was a reserve officer and maybe has the Wurttem FO and did not list it.

I have had this bar for almost 2 years and when I purchased it I thought it would be an easy ID with the Wurttemberg Frederich Order, LD1 and the Portegese Order of Christ 3rd Class. It has proven to be a hard nut to crack. I have looked through every Army and Navy RL that I have from about 1897 forward and no match. I took inspiration from another who member who lloked through the DOA 1908/09. I have just complete looked though A-C and come up with only one possiblility. First the bar:

I saw this as well and question the pin assemble.

I would really appreciate it if you would check the book for any information or pics. I can buy the book for 30 euros but I would like to see if it has any pics or information about Gustav Klein Leutnant der Reserve Gren Rgt 119 18.11.07 D4d (resident of Ravensburg) Oberleutnant dR 26.3.15 E Thanks

pics and description. It looks familiar but I don't remember where I recently saw it. A nine-piece medal bar of a Bavarian officer Iron Cross 1914, 2nd Class (OEK 1909). Bavaria, Military Order of Merit, Cross 4th Class, with crown and swords, silver, enameled, on the reverse maker's name Jakob Leser (OEK 4412). Austria, Military Cross of Merit 3rd Class, with war decoration, gold-plated, enameled (Marko 136). Cross of Honour for Front Fighters. Austria, medal "For Austria 1914/1918", gold-plated. Service medals for the Luftwaffe, cross for 25 years and medal for 12 years, each gold-plated and with eagle pins on the ribbons (OEK 3857/59). Bavaria, Jubilee Medal 1905 for the Bavarian Army, bronze (OEK 517). Hungary, Remembrance medal 1914/1918. Well-preserved clasp with ribbon colours still fresh.

I wonder if this book would help with the ID of Klein and maybe have a pic: Friedrich FACIUS, Die ?sterreichisch-Deutsche Bodenseeflotille 1915-1918. Ein unbekanntes Kapitel aus der Geschichte W?rttembergs im Ersten Weltkrieg, in: ZWLG 26, 1967, S. 432-458 I will try to find the book

Thanks for everyones comments and help.

I picked this up a while back and ws wondering about a few things. The medals are: 1. 1914 EK2 NK 2. Prussian 1916 War Aid 3. Prussian Red Eagle Order 4th Class 4. Red Cross Medal 3rd class 5. Landswehr 2nd Class 6. Brunswick War Merit Cross 2nd Class NK The is no Hindenburg so any peacetime medal could not go after it. Since the RAO is before the LSC is it wartime? If it is then should it have swords or is it peacetime? My quess is that the bar is for a Landswehr Officer Doctor with between 10 and 20 years. Anyway to trace this bar?

Thanks and I corrected it.

I have Hamelman book and a spiral bound 2 book set of Bowen's book. If anyone needs Hamelmans book or wants Bowen's send me a PM. I don't mind parting with it.

follow up doc

Here is one to some who was later a "street master"

I origianlly posted this in the Imperial Section but I thought I would link it over here because of the RK connection. http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=14435

Thanks Glenn.

I was fortunate enough to acquire the medal bar of General Kienitz from the recent Thies auction. It is now the center piece of my collection and offers me an opportunity for additional research. The bar is from the George Seymour collection and I would like to thank Dan Krause, Rick Research and Wild Card for assisting with the research and acquiring the bar. Kienitz was a very well decorated office in both wars and as a commanding general of 17th army corps won the Knight's Cross! The bar must have been worn extensively as the HOH has worn away some of the enamel on the Bavarian order. The decoration are: 1. 1914 EK2 2. HOH3X 3. Bavarian MVO4X 4. Hohenzollern House Order 3X w/swords 5. Hessen Honor Cross 6. Hindenburg with swords 7. Prussian Crown Order 4th Class 8. TR 25 year LSC 9. TR 18 year LSC 10.Austrian Military Cross 3rd Class A very impressive 10 place bar! During my research of Kienitz I found several web pages with details of his career and post war detention. He was detained in Special Camp 11 in England with several high ranking German soldiers and officials. The website is: http://www.camp198.fsnet.co.uk/General%20d...r%20Kienitz.htm The site has many pictures and career information of Generals and Officials. Another site is the Axis Forum and has a pic of Kienitz wear his ribbon bar. The address is: http://www.geocities.com/~orion47/WEHRMACH...ITZ_WERNER.html I have found several pics of Kienitz wearing his ribbon bar and RK but I have been unable to find a picture of him wearing his medal bar. If anyone can provide a pic of Kienitz wearing his medal bar I will reward them with a copy of my Ranklist on CD - Volume 1 or any of my CDs. If anyone has the Kienitz's entry in the multi-volume book set of RK holders I would appreciate it if you would post it. Enjoy the pics.

Hannover Jubilee close up.

I finally received this medal bar from the last Thies auction. I saw it in 2005 and finally was able to purchase it. I would like to thank Daniel Krause for the ID on the bar and Wild Card for additional information. One on hand one may think that a General would have a very large and ornate medal bar. But keep in mind that as an offer was promoted up the ranks his awards were also upgraded. For example Behm in 1892 had the RAO4 and PCO3. By the time he made General in 1897 these two awards were off the medal bar and upgraded to a class worn around the neck. I was told by an old time collector that, when viewing a medal bar that it is as equally important to consider what is NOT on the bar, as what is on the bar. Behm's bar consists of the follow: 1. 25 Year LSC 2. 1870 KDM 3. Centennial 4. Hannover Jubilee 5. 1866 Hannover Langansalza (unnamed) The Hannover Jubilee is not seen that often. I have provided a sketch of Behm's career and decorations using what ranklists I have. If anyone can add to it please feel free. Also if anyone can find a pic of Behm I will be very gratefull and give a copy of my Ranklist on CD - Volume 1! General Lt. Arnold Behm (1842-1924) 1902 ? Gen. Lt. 38th Division Commander RAO2w/ST, PCO2, MG1, HSH1, SEK1 (Bar: DA, KDM 1870, Centennial, Hannover Jubilee 1902, 1866 Langensalza) Date of Rank 9.7.00 1900 ? Gen. Maj. 87th Infantry Brigade RAO2, PCO2, DA Date of Rank 22.3.97 1899 - Gen. Maj. 87th Infantry Brigade RAO2, PCO2, DA Date of Rank 22.3.97 1898 - Gen. Maj. 87th Infantry Brigade RAO2, PCO2, DA Date of Rank 22.3.97 1897 - Gen. Maj. 87th Infantry Brigade RAO2, PCO2, DA Date of Rank 22.3.97 1895 ? Oberst Commander of Infantry Regiment von Borcke (4.Pommersches) Nr. 21 RAO3w/Bow, PCO3, DA Date of Rank 18.11.93 1893 ? Ob. Lt. Infantry Regiment Freiherr von Sparr (3.Westsalisches) Nr. 16 RAO4, PCO3, DA Date of Rank 15.12.90 1892 - Ob. Lt. Infantry Regiment Freiherr von Sparr (3.Westsalisches) Nr. 16 RAO4, PCO3, DA Date of Rank 15.12.90 1890 ? Major Infantry Regiment Nr. 138 RAO4, DA Date of Rank 12.7.85 1889 - Major Infantry Regiment Nr. 138 RAO4, DA Date of Rank 12.7.85 1887 ? Major 4.Niederschlesisches Infantry Regiment Nr. 51 DA Date of Rank 12.7.85 1886 - Major 4.Niederschlesisches Infantry Regiment Nr. 51 (aggregirt) DA Date of Rank 12.7.85 1879 - Hauptman 4.Niederschlesisches Infantry Regiment Nr. 51 Date of Rank 1865 Hannoverian House and State Handbook I find a 2nd. Lt. Arnold Behm assigned to the 7th Inf. Rgt.

The revised Iron Times book by Stephen Previteria will ship the biginning of April. It has 78 new pages, a bigger format and 268 new pictures. It should be a great book!

Chris, Absolutely Wonderfull!! That way a hard strain on the eyes looking through the DOA. I am glad I was able to provide it to you. Although there are almost 1800 pages in the DOA I would like to see a spreadsheet format of it that is searchable. It would be an incredible amount of work but well work it.

Rick, You have wonderfull eye! No I don't mean it that way. How can you read that writting. Thanks for finding it and posting it.

If someone has the book that lists the RK winners and a short bio, would you be so kind as to post the entry for Gen. Lt. Werner Kienitz. Thanks, Paul

Stogieman, are any of your bars IDed?

If anyone has any documents sign by, or to General der Infantry Werner Kienitz would you be so kind as to post them