hunyadi

rev

finally the fourth class - interesting that this was the only one in the set where the smaller order came with a device for the ribbon...

reverse one of the better shots...

3rd

reverse

Second class

reverse of the first class

Gentlemen - my 'exertise' on cases only stems from observation. The cases for these Orders that were in the auction had a red 'leatherette' scuff pad, which is consistent with the cases produced after 1957. Prior to this cases have a paper 'marble' style scuff pad. Though there apparently was a 'stash' of the cases wth marble scuff pads found in the 1970's. These apparently did not have the inserts with them - so as production swithced to more plastic components, these 'stash' cases had crushed felt covered plastic inserts for the awards. But back to the cases of these orders. The components aside from the scuff pads on the bottom also had characterisitcs of post 1957 - the spring type clasp, the quality of the leatherette, etc...were all consistent with later production. One other clue was the lack of a state coat of arms - the Rakosi style being discarded after 1957, wehre as other cased examples have the Rakosi style coat of arms. Regreftully I did not get photos of the case top or bottom - but you can see some of the case details that I talked about. Also - the lighting in the gallery and my lack of a tripod also left - less than desireable photos.... but regardless - here goes...

Gents - Just from an observation about a year ago when a full set of these were up for auction (about $2500 oppening bid) they were cased in cases that were clearly made post 1957. The orders were in mint condition and there was nothing that made me suspect that the orders in the case were 'added' or 'swapped'. As I am away from my computer I cant give you pictures of what the reverse of these looked like - though from what I observed there were certainly examples produced after they were awarded. Perhaps for museums, repleacements, or?? This may be one explination of the different characteristics of the orders.

As Zsolt has mentioned before about the "Large Book" not all the information in it is correct. But the other factror is that not all micrometers measure alike.

slow draw....

An absoulutely stunning set - and to a foreigner! Congratualtions! For clarification - though most have said it already - all of the classes except the Vth class came with a order on a ribbon with a device on the ribbon to denote the class. I'm away from my computer so I dont have any photos 'on' me - but anyone out there got some photos of these in wear that they could post?

Dan - very nice find - I would bet that a lens piece wont be too hard to find if you look hard enough. Wish I could comment on the value for you, but not knowing what these go for I cant. One reason for the mismatched case is that it may have been "smuggled" out by the previous owner(s) hence the last owner adamant that it was original to the glasses. Very nice find still!

Hi Brian - the best part of it all is that I also have the original negatives of almost all of these photos (there are about 100+ but these are the more interesting ones) and the negatives are in great shape. Obviously the storage of the prints and the negatives were in differnt places. As an aside - does anyone know if I can get Willaim 'Bill' Asbury Jr's service record on line?

Very interesting Gordon - is the 3100 badge a screw-back? It makes me wonder if the die used for the fake Master Badge was the same for the 3100? Then one could surmise that these were made by Ungarn and Horvath.

Hi Troy - I know what you mean - as far as I know the only 'forgeries' of the HK's are the ones with swords being lopped off and passed off as non-combatants or the widows - however the wreath on these are different. I hope you can make headway on getting all the makers of the HK - do you have a list? If so - it may be a good idea to post it on a new thread and that way we could add our little tidbits to make a database. I too like the HK - its still affordable...

Troy - its just all smoke and mirrors to get you to say 'Wait - I'll pay $1200 for this EK'....nothing more. If you have the cash, avoid the Ebay and get one from a reputable dealer. It looks like you have been doing well with the HK's on Ebay, and that is a good place to get stuff - dont get me wrong. But finding an original 1870 EK on Ebay is a long wait and chances are that 200 other chaps out there will also be bidding on the same one, potentaily driving up the price beyond what it is realy worth. Best of luck Troy and as you know - keep asking the questions

Another shot - a MASH unit helicopter. Of significance is Bills uncle was Crawford Sams. Crawford Sams was an Army surgeon who was one of the first to get jump wings for his work on personal oxygen tanks for pilots who had to bail out at higher altitudes. This was done by him in the closing days of WW1! Later on Sams was one of the pioneers in the Army to create the MASH units to reduce the battlefield casualties - to good effect in Korea. In 1952 Colliers magazine published an article on Crawford Sams for his daring mission into North Korea to investigate reports of the Black Plague - this was done at the request of the North Koreans to the US military. The NK docotrs were stumped and asked for assistance. The US responded as they did not want their own troops coming into contact with the deadly plague. As I said - its a family tradition.

Well grand uncle Bill survived the war - came back to his wife and son. She would later give birth to triplets of girls. Notice the son in service star on the front door of the farmhouse. Bill - now shaved! - tried for the rest of his life to adjust. Never keeping a job for very long and never finding his way to get rich. He died at age 70 of a heart attack while in the county jail. Arresed for poaching deer out of season.

Another interesting photo - he writes on the back that the white smoke on the hill is a fire mission that he dirrected while on recon. I assume that he discovered a target and the following morning helped the artty to hit the target.

If you notice - Bill has a mustache and generaly looks to be in shabby shape. The other guys have to shave and look somewhat presentable. As I had said before, Bill was meant to have lived in the middle ages. He was not one who cared for authority - even the USMC could not break him of that. But the officers looked the other way and for good reasons. According to Bill and family legends, Bill accepted and then volunteered for dangerious missions. Namely his offciers found out that Bill, working alone produced results. Apparently Bill would go out into no-mans-land and even infiltrate behind enemy lines with just his fatigues, a cap and his .45. He would then go out and at times wait for days for North Koreans or Chinese officers and NCOs to come across his path. He would wait for the right time when these men were isolated from their unit (sometimes to go pee...) then he would sneak up to them with his .45 and say in Korean 'come with me and live or die right here'. They mostly chose the latter. So here he would come back with POWs. Apparently officers tired to decorate him for bravery, but he tunred them down or never wore the medals. One of my favoire photos is this one that he sent to his mother the inscription on the back is 'bringing back POWs'. I am guessing that he is in the back of the column with the cap - not the helmets and field packs. The POWs look to be in their underwear.

Another shot of him with platoon mates. As written on the back, he apologises to his mother the picture is in poor shape because he carried it with him during the rainy season and it got wet several times

There are too numerious photos to post about Bill in Korea, but here are a few of them. The quality is not the best as they were probably shot with a Brownie camera, and as Bill comments on the back of several of them, the weather was not the best conditions for film. Here is a shot of him with his walrus mustache and pipe.

For the Asbury family - the USMC was a family tradition. Here is Bills father, William Asbury during WW1. Probably to ensure the birth of Bill and Robert, providence saw that his father was never deployed to Europe.

As posted before my grnafather was in the AAC durng WW2. Consequently his father was a ground-pounder in WW1 seeing action in France with the 88th Infantry Division. In the past years I have learned more about one of the 'black sheep' of the family. My grand uncle Bill Asbury (brother of my grnadmother). Apparently he was not as bad as his brother Robert who sired several children with various women and dissapeared into the horizon on a motorcycle... Grand Uncle Bill was a little different. Many describe him as a person who should have been born in the middle ages. While going through my grandparents estate I found a shoe box filled with photos of grand uncle Bill and his time in Korea. Also in the box was a diary that he kept in 1949 which led up to his assignment to Japan - but not his deployment to Korea. Bill was follwing a family tradition, here he is with his father (far left) Bill second from left and (I believe his neighbor - father and son who also joined with Bill)