Wild Card

Hello westfale, I apologize for the delay. How is this? If you need more detail, I will see what I can do - no problem. Best wishes, Wild Card

The buckle doesn’t look that bad, but well... what do you think?

No marks on the cross or the swords.

Gentlemen, Here is a grubby old fellow for your evaluation,

An excellent observation Saschaw, thank you. Actually, I had intended to see if anyone caught this, and if not; I was going to post some further information this weekend. Since you caught it though, I will continue now with “the rest of the story”. I purchased this piece from Eric Ludvigsen over ten years ago. Whatever it is, I think that we can all agree that it is not an ordinary cross. So what was Eric’s opinion on it? Here are my notes on his observations - “Because this is a real silver (Hmk’d GH 900) piece, it is surely one of the first group of 30 awarded on 30 Dec. 1913, birthday of King Ludwig III. Up to 26 July 1915, 177 were awarded after which swds were added.” This would make it a 2nd class, 2nd type, as awarded 1913-1915. This would tend to indicate that subsequent pieces were not of “900” silver. I might add that Nimmergut’s magnum opus refers to the 30 pieces being awarded the king’s 1913 birthday. While we continue to await the publication of the ultimate reference on this order, I welcome any opinions and comments, and thank you again Saschaw. Best wishes, Wild Card

And the case.

The hallmarks.

Reverse.

Here is the 1st class version.

While the one with crown and swords appears more porous and almost “mushy” to the point that I fear that if left in a glass of water for a couple of days, it would dissolve rather than rust. So, the question is - which is zinc and which is war metal?

Thank you Avadski, I think that you are setting us off in the right direction. Yes, the crown and swords are very highly magnetic, which I think would eliminate their being made out of zinc and probably (?) eliminate the possibility of war metal as well. Soooo... looking again at my two pieces, something has struck me. These two crosses are, in my opinion, made of totally different material. Zinc and war metal? The one with just the swords appears to be of a good, comparatively solid, metallic substance,

In introducing this thread, to keep it manageable I was rather hoping that we would stay with material confined to the crosses. As you can see, in a relatively short time, we have gone to fifty posts on the crosses; and there is still a lot that will hopefully be brought out. I would therefore like to ask that we continue to stay with the crosses here. A separate thread on the order crosses and stars would be a great idea though. Thank you. Wild Card

Hello avadski, Not being a metallurgist, I cannot claim to be an expert on the topic, but I will pass on what I do know and think. First, zinc is an identifiable element, symbol Zn. So, I guess that means that it is that sort of thing that stands alone with it’s own unique characteristics that cannot be broken down any further, like carbon, iron or even oxygen. War metal, on the other hand is made up of several different components and the proportions of these components can vary from batch to batch. If you take a close look at the crosses in posts 2, 3, 25 and 26, you may be able to tell that the swords and crown are made from a metal which is different from the metal of which the crosses are made. Again, I am not an expert on these matters and will gladly defer to any other member who might be able to give more accurate information on this question. Best wishes, Wild Card

but there is one big difference which does not come through clearly in the pictures. The body of the cross in posts #2 and #3 is made of zinc, while this one is war metal. Keep them coming, there’s still a lot to be covered, and learned.

Gentlemen, Thank for your interest and contributions. I, for one, have learned quite a lot already. To keep things moving along, here a 3rd class cross which looks very much like the cross in posts #2 & #3...

Hello usairforce, These are certainly two beautiful pieces. I wish that I was qualifies to tell you for sure if they are “real” or not; but honestly I cannot be sure and will defer in the hope that some of our more qualified members can help you. I would point out however, in case that you are not aware of it that your Alexander Nevsky is numbered 1509 and there is a picture of number 1515 in The Big Red Bible. I hope that you get good news on your pieces. Best wishes, Wild Card @ Chris Boonzaier - Me too!

Although sometimes referred to as 4th class, as far as I know, these crosses were 3rd class pieces made out of zinc and war metal. They were made and awarded from 1918-1920. I do not know who made these crosses and as far as I can tell, this one is unmarked. Have fun Gentlemen -

and go with something that many of us have and might be able to contribute something about. So, why not try the Bavarian Military Merit Cross?

Gentlemen, It's been a while since we have had a good old fashioned discussion about a particular decoration and it's various forms and variations. With good participation and sharing of information, we could build a valuable reference base. Let's stay away from something that only one or two of us, if any, would be interested in...

Nice one Beau. One of those decorations where the whole story “Für Tapferkeit / 1914” is right out there in front of you. I do have a question. Is the color in the picture accurate, or is the lighting giving it something of a slightly yellowish tint? Wild Card

Surely they would be on the rolls. The question is whether those rolls are available. Perhaps another Forum member has the answer. Good luck on your hunt and keep us posted on how it goes. Wild Card

Rare? I would bet that this bar is probably a one of a kind. Congratulations! :cheers:

:beer:

Hi CRBeery, How about this? Braunschweig Landwehr 2nd class schnalle, 1879-1886

:love: I apologize for the double post; but in retrospect, this piece deserves it. :whistle: