BlackcowboyBS

well I have written the books on Brunswick and the officers cross was awarded 220 times, so a bit more than just 5! 

I can check a name for you, if you get me on from the other decorations.

By the way congratulation to this great mini chain, I have never seen an officers cross on a chain like this before. 

On 29/09/2021 at 18:52, ashley58 said:

yes they do appear on occasions i also have a 1939 version with the typical French style pin as a mounting ? as seen below

huh! Wouldn't this be a contradiction in its self? A french wearing an ek2 from 1939? Or this one belonged to a guy who served in the legion after the war or very unlikly a member of the french wallonian ss, 

32 minutes ago, digitiser91 said:

Hi I have bought an Iron Cross WW1 how can I tell if it is real, or not also on other German medals?

If you want to dig deeper into this kind of matter, there is no other way than to buy yourself some good books on this topic. I would recommend the Frank Wernitz Books.

7 hours ago, 91-old-inf-reg said:

@KomturDo you think this could beg the question that this could possibly be an early example of a “Frankenstein” bar?

The missing schleife, the worn Kronen Orden IV klasse, the post-1918 HOH, and, possibly the weakest of the evidence, the awards being in silver gilt. 

By Frankenstein - Bar you mean it is a modern creation to harm collectors? 

6 hours ago, FAR 32 said:

Hello folks.  It seems nobody finds the medal bar I presented above interesting enough to provide any feedback. 

 

 

 

well your bar is a nice one, but what should we tell you? The owner must have been a public official for more than 40 years, started his career before 1897 so he got the centenard while he was serving in the army or maybe as an official for the prussian state (which I doubt in regards to his south german awards) He wasn't fighting neither in ww1 nor in ww2, but got the prussian wmc and wmc in ww2 without swords. So all cries out: public official who owned some merits in supporting the troops, maybe working for the reichsbahn or post or ... an id would be close to impossible I would say.

 

And maybe next time you really should start your own thread on this bar.    

8 hours ago, Komtur said:

 

IMHO these are silver gilt ones. The Hohenzollern is not an officially awarded one. It seems to be made after 1918 and could be at the best an exile award after 1930. In the end a strange combination with at least some doubts.

 

Regards, Komtur.

 

 

Gilt as stated in the beginning ...

The first time that I saw this bar, I said to myself: wow, could this combinantion be really true? A KO3 combined with a KO4 with this ribbon, the HOH with that ribbon and the RAO3 with crown but without bow? But then I read all your opionions on it, like rick, etc... and told myself: okay I am not an expert on prussia, so what do I know to tell my doubts? But yes even the fact that we can't find a possible id of the owner makes it hard to believe that this one is an original one from the German Empire. If it would be, it would be certainly a very impressive one. 

But coming back to my question: the KO4 on this ribbon without the red cross on the order, who could get this one and for what kind of reasons, someone wrote here that this happened. So I would love to learn more on this. Thanks! 

Folks,

I am quite sure that the story is an urban legend, but as I can't proof it wrong or right I want to share it with you. I meet a guy in a bar with an army carmouflage jacket on and on his breast I spot a medal on a pentagonal medal clasp. I asked him what kind of medal this is and where he got it from. He claimed that he was in the middle east and took this medal from a dead body of a terrorist fight from the IS. "This medal ist the only one, ever been awarded by the IS" this were his words. 

Now I managed to get this photo and I can tell, that the pentagonal medal clasp truely looks like the one from the Combat Order "For Services to the People and the Fatherland" from the GDR. The medal itself has some arabic writings on it and if I compare it to the flag of the ISIS then it looks like taken from there. The backside of the medal is plain. 

So Gentlemen, what is your expertise on this, is it really a medal from ISIS or just a nice story been told in a bar deep in the night. So is this medal purly a product of fantasy and being sold on some middle east bazaars to tourist?? I can't tell but tend to believe the later. 

true! That would be wonderfull. Even the answers to the ribbon on the HO without swords and the KO4 on that ribbon without the cross haven't been given. 

So @Daniel Krause what about you, can you id this bar? 

a nice bar! 

Interesting, I allways thought that these pentagonal ribbon clasps were only used in the USSR and GDR and further communist governed states.

I am pretty sure, that Pelkmann didn't recieved the 1st class of the Braunschweig War Merit Cross. 

Well, I would be concerned about the blue line on this medal! ? ?.

Okay let's get serious, I would say, that this is not a piece handed ou in WW1. Maybe in the mid 20s or later. This is a question for the experts, but I am pretty sure, that is was not awarded in WW1. There are some pretty good fakes around on this badge as well. 

@Chris Boonzaier has mentioned the Waterloo Ducat in this post here earlier in this forum. But let me show you one more piece of the most desierable and extremly rare honor ducat given to the bravest of the braves. Only 8 soldier recieved them in a special ceremony on 13th of august 1815 on the doorsteps to Paris. One soldier of each brunswick troop units, so it was one for the Husars, one for the Uhlans, one for the Artillery, one for the Life Bataillon, one for the Rifleman Bataillon, one for the first, one for the second and one for the third Line Bataillon. 

The ducat shown here is an original ducat from 1814, they were a present from the black duke to his sons, who gave them away as a honor awrad the these eigth soldiers (no officers should get them), a jeweller in Brussels mad the suspension and thight them on a blue ribbon.

The first drawing of these waterloo honor ducats was shown in 1837 in the Book on the orders and medals of the guelphic houses (Hannover and Brunswick). The one shown here looks exactly like the drawing from 1837 with the suspension. A jeweller has checked it recently and said that golden alloy used for the suspension is old. 

But to be honest it is impossible to tell, if this one is really one of the eight ducats given away in 1815 or a newer production for a collector who wanted deerly to have one in his collection. The 7 owner of the ducats who were still alive in 1834 had to lay down their ducats and wore the newly founded silver honor cross 2nd class of the order of Henry the Lion. Their ducats stood in their posessions and wasn't given back. 

So this is a piece you won't see that often. 

PS: more on this ducat and all the other orders and medals of the duchy on Brunswick can be found here! Only 15 sets left for order, then it is sold out and it won't be reprinted! 

That is an interesting question, if I see through the lists of the waterloo medals given, I do find 4 Deneckes in lists of the Husars: 

Georg Denecke, born in Helmstedt

Heinrich Denecke, born in Kreiensen, killed in action

Friedrich Denecke, born in Blankenburg, dead

Georg Denecke, born in Hessen ( a small village at the border of the duchs of Brunswick)

So Owen was right, but the spelling in his source was wrong! 

9 minutes ago, David M said:

Looks like an ns eagle on the cap

Also on the uniform is the ns eagle to be seen.

cool photos and nice story, reminds me of his american counterpart Howard Hughes. I wonder about the man in the front row with his cigarette, is that young Hermann G? I really like the chap on the left side with his monocole, that is pure officiers style at that time being. 

I agree with Triad08, this one shown in the first post here is a modern copy produced long after WW2 and has nothing to do with the original awarded ones. 

On 07/08/2021 at 21:28, Deutschritter said:

 I also read, that many/all NCOs with the GMMC were promoted to Leutnant der Landwehr on Tannenbergtag in August 1939?!

That's what I have also read, so I guess its true.

I have sent you the email just now, so I hope that you will find the information in it helpfull and interesting. with kind regards 

Blackcowboy BS

oh wow! In Germany we have the saying, that 5 of 4 westphalia medals are fakes! But yours looks pretty okay, I guess that the armour shows signs of wearing and that these marks aren't tiny blowholes? I have never seen the award document, so this one really is awesome!!!! 

PS: I really love your  book on the HIstoire des distinctions honorifiques du royaume de Westphalie and have it in my liberary. I took a look into it and saw that Frederic Sächtling was musician. Any chances that we learn for what he has earned his medal?

PSS: In my book Vol 2 on pages 57f you will find a letter from Sergeant Eggeling to the duke of Brunswick, where he is writing about his silver and the golden medal of honor of westphalia. If you want me to, I can send you the translation into english or french to your email address, which I have! Just give me short note, if you want me to do so. 

interesting! How many soldiiers recieved both the PlM and the golden MMC? Is Julius Buckler the only one and how was the rule about wearing these two together? Was he allowed to wear the gmmc only on the small Feldspange or could he also had worn it on the great Feldschnalle and the PlM around the neck? 

Post war related to imperial medals allways means between wwI and wwII. 

20 hours ago, augustin1813 said:

Than you. I had a doubt o knowing if the medal was a military (Guelfen-Medaille) or a civilan one, because it is no grade or unit indication.

 

 

 

Well this discussion goes on since how many years? It is known, that there are some exceptions of the general rules, so you have military medals without grade or unit id. Hopefully I will end this discussion when my book comes out. I am looking forward to digging into the archives! 

well the condition of this one is amazing! To me it looks okay. He was a rifleman of the Landwehr Battaillon Münden in the battle of Waterloo, his rang was Schütze (the same as rifleman I suppose), when he got his award in the same Bataillon. 

20 hours ago, augustin1813 said:

The name ingraved is "IOH. IAEGER. 1 IAEG BT"

Thank you, here for your information is his name in the official list of the bearers of the Waterloo medal. Your Johann Jaeger was born directly in the city of Brunswick and in 1818 he was allocated to the corps.

well the guy on the right side totally looks like Adolf Galland, but then the photo must have been taken before 29th of july 1940. But if your General is Paul Conrath, then we are in trouble, as he recieved his KC 4th of september 1941. So that would mean that Galland doesn't wear his KC and he is also not wearing his spanish cross, so interesting question. Who is this sibling? 

14 hours ago, VtwinVince said:

Cowboy, it looks like you have serious competition in the Braunschweig area. I have a couple of these medals, unfortunately missing the suspension clip.

Yes Brunswick is rare, beautyfull and hard to find, but there are bigger fish out there, with tremendous collections of Brunswick. I am just a beginner. 

PS: @augustin1813 which Name is engraved in this medal, that would be interesting