David M

rolls in statehandbook maybe I mentioned this before but the rolls of the CHGL ( I will translate that for you: churhessian house order of the golden lion) I use, I take from the various volumes of the Statehandbook. I know of about some other statehandbooks with exact (full date) or at least the year of award of the orders and medals from that country. I would love to start an inventory here. As far as kurhessen goes, I have the following 1772-1786 1817-1833 1840 (which I found here: link ) For anyone who is not familiar with this kind of source: it is just great!! Hope members will post the volumes they have here David M

Hi Mark Beyreiss is the expert on Oldenburg. Check out his website www.oldenburg-orden.de (contactdata on this website as well) If you wnat to be sure about your award, let him check!! David

Not according to my information the Knightcross of the Golden Lion always was a more longer shape

They (both 3rd and 4th Class are supposed to be oval (no photo's to show alas, just what I know from the Statuten).....so I guess it is another box?

Hi Christian Thanks for the info....I would have hoped on something like abook or a list in the austrian 19th century Staatscalenders I did no know of....that would be far easier :-)) Any chance of people you know in Viennan doing research in the archives regularly and finding time to look up some dates? Thanks in advance David

I have the following problem for quite some officers of the kurhessian army, I have the year they received their austrian award. However I would like to know the exact dates to complete the biographical entry in my book e.g. Heinrich Schmidt received his Grandcross ?LO in 1846.But when in 1846? Any chance of finding this out without having to ask the archives in Vienna and paying 40? for a date (as I did with the kurhessian Gesdanter von Steuber) hope someone can help me out here Thanks David M

Hi Glenn thanks for that input, I would not know what else it could be (in the text) but I was a little confused. Thanks for the additions to the Regimental numbers. David

Hi Brian I only know 1 other example (remember I am no expert in this) it involved a nassovian (did I just invent that word for someone from the Duchy of Nassau, like the sound of it anyway :-). He became a Hauptmann and started of as Gemeiner. It took him some decades :-) Will ask the bavarians if there is any chance of a picture of Schuch. Anything post 1851 would be great for my own research aswell. Will keep you posted. David M

Today the careerdetails arrived from Bavaria 21.09.1851 Michael Schuch geboren Regenau (Kreis Unterdonau) 02.09.1811, gestorben an den im Gefechte bei Orleans erlittenen Wunden Versailles 04.01.1871; 27.07.1829 als Gemeiner im 4. Linien-Infanterie-Regiment ?Herzog von Sachsen-Altenburg? eingegangen, 01.09.1829 Vice-Korporal, 01.03.1830 Korporal, 01.06.1831 als Unterkannonier zum 2. Artillerie-Regiment versetzt, 15.06.1831 Cadeten-Achtung (?), 01.07.1831 Oberkannonier, 01.09.1831 Vize-Korporal, 01.01.1832 Korporal, 20.03.1835Versetzung als Junker im 6. Linien-Infanterie-Regiment ?Herzog Wilhelm?, 22.03.1836 Unterlieutenant im Infanterie-Regiment Lamotte, 15.12.1836 Versetzung zum Infanterie-Regiment Theobald, 14.02.1845 Bataillons-adjutant, 07.04.1847 Oberlieutenant, 18.07.1847 Regiments-Adjutant, 23.12.1849 Hauptmann 2. Classe, im 4. Infanterie-Regiment, 31.03.1855 Hauptmann 1. Classe, 11.12.1861 Major im 13. Infanterie-Regiment ?Kaiser Franz Joseph von ?sterreich?, 02.09.1862 6. Infanterie-Regiment ?K?nig Wilhelm von Preu?en?, 25.12.1867 Oberstlieutenant 8. Infanterie-Regiment vac. Senkendorff, 24.05.1868 Versetzung zum 6. Infanterie-Regiment ?K?nig Wilhelm von Preu?en?, 01.02.1870 Oberst und Commandeur des 3. Infanterie-Regiment ?Prinz Carl?. 25.08.1865 Dienstalterzeichen f?r 24 Jahre, 27.06.1869 Dienstalterzeichen f?r 40 Jahre, 26.09.1870 II. Klasse des preussischen eisernen Kreuz, 01.11.1870 Ritterkreuz 1. Classe des bayrischen Milit?rverdienst-Ordens. I do have some questions 1. What is Cadeten-Achtung (did I misread?) 2. Why is he Vicekorporal and Korporal in Inafantry first and does he need to go through the same rank again in Artillery? 3. What number did Regiment Lamotte have 4. Same for Regiment Theobald 5. What would the BMVO look like? Would anyone have pictures? Thanks David M

Thank you all very much for your input. I think Rick is right....when anything would be published, at least I am sure everybody knows its my work, not just bnecause I am vain but there is a lot of (hard) work in things like this and poeple should be given credit for their work... I think it is more clear to me now what I should do with the results of my research and why. Thanks again David M

Hi Ed Thanks for your input! Do you mean the story behind the individual award or the history of the order in general? e.g. The Order of Wilhelm was awarded 460 times in 15 years. I dont have the totall numbers yet for The House order of the Golden Lion, but the history behind each and every individual award although I do believe it is possible to find out, would be very time consuming. I thought about this idea as well: publish the rolls in print and elaborate on the internet to tell more about (groups of) individual awards David

As you may know by now, I am involved in the research to the kurhessian Orders and decorations. However, I am still doubting about how I should proceed in publishing the data I managed to find and others found for me. Should I do this online or in print? I have some pro's and con's of my own ofcourse, and I would like you to tell me what you think would be best online: I dont have to wait with publishing untill I completed my research cheaper easier to get to for researchers in print Some people still prefer reall books over digitalized material my book would end up in libraries (like university libraries in Hessen and their online catalogues), so I guess prestige would cover that not necessarily more expensive, when one finds a history society interested in publishing it. these are just some of my thoughts about that part. The second part I would like to discuss with you is which data should be involved in the description of the members of an order e.g. just the list with names from the Rolls and the data shown on these rolls. or should there be more specific information in there aswell such as the date of nobility (for members of the order ennobled, not them from noble descent) and the foreign orders and decorations with dates? I hope you will take the time to read and give your opinion, you would not only be helping me but also future publishers who might struggle with the same issue Thanks a lot David M

Hi Solomon is the SL art & science the one depicted as your avatar? If not, I would love to see an image!! David

The only state which did not award 1866 medals was Kurhessen.......I guess Friedrich Wilhelm was really disappointed

The archives in Marburg do give the following information: Mission des Fl?geladjutanten Rittmeister Freiherr von Verschuer zur ?berbringung der kurf?rstlichen Gl?ckw?nsche zur Goldenen Hochzeit des Landgrafen Wilhelm von Hessen in Kopenhagen; [Anzeige zum Tod der Landgr?fin Louise Charlotte] 1861-1864 Would the award of the Knightscross in the danish Danneborg order also be around this time? Would this be researchable for you Great Dane? Thanks so much for the SWC awarddate!!!! David

Well my guess was that the Wasa order may have still been awarded by the exiled Kings and princes of Swedens Wasa dynastie, who sympathized with the kurhessian exiled souvereign. Any proof to back this theorie up?? David

Hi Carol, I found the details on this site, and coulnt understand why a Hofmarschall would get an order for mining, agriculture aso....is there a list of rolls published on the Vasa-order? David

Hi Glenn, as my research progresses, I found some other senoir prussian officers and wondered if they would be in your book as well, again looking for career data, pictures and possible dates of the (foreign)awards: Wilhelm von Kienitz, geboren M?nster 23.03.1823 D70/71, OldV2bXaR, PrRa2mE, PrKr2, EK2, PrDK, Pr66, PrZM Adolf von Herzberg, D70/71, Ludwigsorden2a, HssP2b, MecklWKr2a, McklSchwMVK1, OldV2bX, PrRA2mSt&E&XaR, PrRA2mSch&Xor, PrKr1mXaR, PrKr3X, EK1, PrDK, Pr64, Pr66, PrZM, WldVK1, WrtF1 OestEK3X, RussSt1 Friedrich Graf von Perponcher-Sedlnitzky, AnhA1 BVKO1 BayMich1 BdZL1mBr BdZL1XmgoldeneKtt BrnL1 D70/71 HanG3 HssP1 HohEK1 LpEK1 MecklWkr1mgKr MecklSchMVD2 OldV1 PrRAGKmE&Kr PrRAmEmEdKrXaR PrKr2X PrHoh1 EKII PrLD1 Pr66 PrZM KsaA1msSt GsaF1 HSaH1 SchLpMvM WldMVK1 WrtF1 BlgL1 DuD1 GrchE1 JapV1 LtM&L1 TosCiv1 NdL1 OestL1 OestEK1 OestFJ1 PersL&S1 PrtChr1 PrtV1 RMSt1 RussAletc RussA1mBr SchwdN1 SpCIII SrbT1 TuerO1 TuerM1. Thanks again, David

Then why did Friedrich Wilhelm Julius Georg Alexander Joseph Ernst Freiherr von Verschuer (Annahme des kurf?rstlich hessischen Freiherrntitels 1839 f?r diese Familie mit niederl?ndischen Adelstitel), geboren Fritzlar 1827, gestorben Salzburg 1902; 1846 Secondelieutenant, reichte 1850 keinen Abschied ein, 1852 Premierlieutenant, 1858 Rittmeister, 1859-1866 Fl?geladjutant des Kurf?rsten, 1861 Kommandeur der Garde-Gendarmerie zu Pferde, 1866 w?rde er von der ?bernahme in die preu?ischen Armee ausgeschlossen, trat in den unmittelbaren Diensten des Kurf?rsten und ging mit Friedrich Wilhelm I. ins Exil. Er diente vor?bergehend 1866-1872 als Hofmarschall. ?FJ-2, GHPO-2X, SW-C, DD-3, HG-3X. Arndt S. 491; Rosenwald, Offiziere Nr. 312 S. 57. get it as well? Any ideas or similar examples?

That's to bad

Hi Glenn That is an interesting title!!! is it set-up by country and does it also contain the last kurhessian Generals 1848-1866 like Schirmer, Kaltenborn and R?ppell von Helmschwerdt? David

I think so to, I saw pictures of the ceremonie before and recognize the setting...

Hi Glenn Thanks for the info and beautiful picture. What was the source for the pictures? David

Hi Gents I am looking for data on the career of the sachson officer Alban von Montbe. Over the internet I could ifnd out he was Stadtkommandant of Dresden 1874-1885. He also held the Inhaberkreuz (=4th Class) of the Wilhelmsorden, that's why I am interested in the 1st place. A picture would be great too Thanks a lot David M

HI Gents as you may or may not know I am describing the kurhessian Wilhelmsorden as one of my projects at the moment. I would like to make the entry of Dimitri von Vietinghoff complete, but do not have the DOA 1908-1909 to check his awards. I hope someone could assist me in this This is what I have so far (thanks to Glenn J) I would also like to fill in some gaps in his career (regiments names at Artillerie aso) and find full dates where I just have years now Dimitri von Vietinghoff, geboren Ludwigslust 21.05.1836, gestorben 24.10.1914;1854 Offizier-Aspirant ins J?ger-Bataillon, 19.12.1855 Secondelieutenant und Versetzung zur Artillerie, 05.10.1860 Premierlieutenant, 1863 Fl?geladjutant des Grossherzogen, 30.10.1866 Hauptmann, 1872 Kommandeur einer Batterie im Feld-Artillerie-Regiment Nr. 6, 1875 Major ins 1. Garde-Feld-Artillerie Regiment, 1876-25.03.1882 kaiserlich deutscher Milit?r Attache an der Gesandschaft in London, 16.09.1881 Oberstlieutenant, 1883 Oberst a.D.und Hofmarschall der Grossherzogin-Mutter Alexandrine von Mecklenburg-Schwerin, 1892 Oberschlosshauptmann des Grossherzogen Friedrich Franz III., 1895 Excellenz, 12.12.1903 Hofmarschall, Thanks a lot David M