bob lembke

Rick; Many thanks. His handwriting, both in the sehr gut that he wrote and in his signature, is extremely bold and dramatic and seems to be written with a very broad calligraphy pen. Happy to send you a scan (might have to be in two pieces) if you send me an e-mail address in a PM. For several years I bought all sorts of things on e-Bay, especially Militaer=Paesse, and just was digging thru the stuff and noticed the document again. Think a vendor posted a scan on e-Bay and I read the signature and bid on it. Bob

I have a Fuehrungszeugniss dated September 26, 1904, for a Musketier von 2. Kompagnie Infanterie=Regiments Freiherr von Sparr (3. Westf.) Nr. 16. It is signed "von Bluecher, Hauptmann und Kompagnie=Chef". I have Ranglisten, but they of course will not tell me who he really was. Was he a descendant of Marshal Bluecher? I have to say, the "sehr gut" and the signature, obviously the hand of the company CO, are probably the most dramatic German officer's signature and handwriting that I have ever seen. Were I an echte von Bluecher in the Kaiserszeit, I think that I would affect a dramatic signature myself. I have never mastered the art of posting images. Bob Lembke

Just noticed this wonderful thread; thank you Stephan, and Chris for your excellent additions. I will have to go over it more carefully. Militaer=Paesse are such a valuable historical tool, potentially much more so if there was some sort of collaboration between major collectors to facilitate sharing of these resources. I have two Paesse from Garde=Reserve=Pionier=Regiment (Flammenwerfrer) (my father's and a copy of another kindly provided by a collector) and one Pass from Sturm=Bataillon Nr. 5 (Rohr) (from another kind collector-my father also fought with this unit at Verdun with the Flammenwerfer), and each one has revealed very interesting facts about these important and interesting units that probably could not be found in a different manner. (If anyone has a Pass from either of these units I would be very happy to swap other interesting material for a copy.) I also am building rosters of the men of these two units. My one for S=B Rohr is in an early stage, but my one for the G=R=P=R is at about 1200 men and counting. If anyone is interested in men from these units I would be happy to do a look-up and see if I have more material on them. I have the death rolls of both units. I also am in early stages of a study of the fighting on HWK; both of the above units had elements fighting there. Have not visited the scene yet. Alsace is lovely. Thanks again! Bob Lembke

I am still not happy with any interpretation of the spelling of Hardi's last name, unless we accept that someone would write his first name in Suetterlin and his last name in modern script. However, I may be wrong. At some time (1915?) the Prussian Army postal regulations insisted that addresses on Feldpost were to be written in modern script, and from that time generally in Suetterlin texts on post cards, Feldpost, usw. had place names written in modern script in a sea of Suetterlin. But did that transfer to last names, while keeping first names written in Suetterlin? But, of course, in the Army the last name was the name. If one tries to lean closer to Suetterlin I might suggest "Raetzlr", although it seems odd. "Raetzl" could be one of those characteristic odd (to me) South German/Austrian names. (Strange people, those South Germans!) If someone did not catch it, the place and date for the photo was Weimar, October 27, 1919. Bob Lembke

So probably the men were issued P 08s for the duration of the training course. All the men in my father's storm unit had an issued P 08, but I don't think that men of an ordinary infantry unit would have, unless they were members of a formal storm unit inside the infantry unit. No one in my father's unit carried a G 98 into combat, I believe; I think that some NCOs carried a slung carbine; it would have been hard to hold a captured position without any rifles in case of a serious counter-attack. Bob Lembke

Hi, Hardy and Douglas; R=I=R 122 was almost certainly the reserve twin of I=R 122. These were (as were I=R 121, I=R 123, I=R 124), units from Wuerttemburg, which generally were very good units. I do not know why they all had P 08s; perhaps they were MG troops or worked with other crew-served weapons. The mailing to a machine-gunner is weak evidence for this; they might have met at a MG course. Why smoke grenades? The holes in the top of the grenade head? I have never heard of German WW I smoke grenades, which proves nothing, but suggests that if they existed they were not common. Bob Lembke

The first unit to receive the new Stahlhelm, at Verdun, was Sturm=Bataillon Nr. 5 (Rohr), and soon thereafter the men of Garde=Reserve=Pionier=Regiment (Flammenwerfer) also received them (when it was still an odd battalion of about 10 companies). While I have heard of infantry troops at Verdun turning their steel helmets over to their replacements when being relieved when the new helmets were still in short supply, I don't know of the two above elite units having to do so, and of course they were not relieved in the conventional sense. While officers wore the Pickelhaube thruout the war on ceremonial occasions, such as reviews, I am surprised that EM of Garde=Reserve=Pionier=Regiment even had access to them in mid-1917 and later. I would think "that it was done for the photographer", but even that was odd; in mid-war, 1916, as illustrated in the succession over time of German war bond drive posters, the classic image of the elite German soldier shifted from the soldiers of the old traditional regiments in Pickelhaube to depictions of troopers of the new elite storm units such as Rohr and the G=R=P=R. So even the idea of "for the photographer" was rather odd in 1917. It could have been the quirk of an individual company commander of G=R=P=R; these units often were quite independent in some ways. Bob Lembke

Rich; To veer a bit OT for a second. My father fought at Gallipoli, in the volunteer Pionier=Kompagnie. He told me that he "earned" the Turkish Star. I have a few medals from him, but the earliest of the ones I have was awarded Spring 1918. Did he automatically "earn" the Star for having fought there? Would he have been given one physically? Or just the right to go out and buy one? There seem to be so many privately made ones. What I am asking is: 1) Can I feel confident that he did indeed "earn" one? 2) I am thinking of obtaining a set of his decorations and frame them together, keeping my three originals (EK II, wound badge, Hindenburg Cross) elsewhere. What sort of Turkish Star would be representative of an EM/OR? I am not looking for the perfect collector's item, but a representative example. Any advice appreciated. You seen to know a lot about the decoration. Bob Lembke

Many thanks. I e-mailed my friend with your information and he said that he had made a mistake, the statue was in Munich, and he saw it once. I had told him that I was running across von Wrede's, but that they generally were coming from Bayern. I think that there also was a bay. Infanterie=Regiment "von Wrede". Will look it up. Yes, in 1900 there was the bay. Infanterie=Regiment Nr. 9 "Wrede" in the bay. Infanterie=Division Nr. 4., garrisoned in Wuertzburg. I assume named for von Wrede. Bob Lembke

I don't know beans about medals and naval uniforms, so I only ran with the Hackenkreuz. So doesn't he seem young for a minimum 1918 to 1938 span (20 years), and more likely 1915-1938, 23 years? Bob Lembke

Gentlemen; Corresponding with a childhood friend, and he mentioned a family rumor, that there is an ancestor, a Field Marshal Prinz von Wrede who has a statue in Hamburg. He thinks that his family, at least recently, came from Osterholz-Scharmbeck, which he thinks is Lower Saxony. I looked in my 1879 Prussian Rangliste, but nothing. I have previously seen Wredes and von Wredes coming from Bavaria. I have about 18 Prussian Ranglisten, but not one for other German states. Does this ring any bells? Bob Lembke

Seems young to have a WW I decoration, whatever his service. The Gallipoli Star was given to Central Power officers that did not necessarily serve in Turkey, but I think OR had to serve there. Thr tightest span would be 1933 - 1918 = 15 years. Do you have a date or a rough date for the photo? Bob Lembke

Claudio; Great thread! Thank you! It looks like the monument is one to the soldiers of a specific regiment, Infanterie=Regiment "Alt Wuerttemburg" , which I think I have heard of. I have cousins in Ludwigsburg, transplants from Berlin. Bob Lembke

Many thanks, Rick! The book was published in 1917. Also, he could have stamped the book with an old stamp. I guess that if he served in action he probably served in Flanders, not in Turkey. (A number of artillery officers went to Turkey to assist with the defences, especially at Gallipoli.) The Doenitz book is quite good. Seems like an intellectually lively guy. Loved Istanbul, good sign, great city. Bob Lembke

I assume that Kapitaenleutnant is a naval rank. Does this name/post ring any bells? I have about 18 army Ranglisten, but no naval ones. I have a book that he once owned. It is about the Goeben, the battle cruiser that ended up with the Turks. Could he have served on it? I have a sister book, about the cruiser Breslau, and it was written by Doenitz, the officer of WW II fame, who served on the Breslau. The Goeben book was written by Leutnant zur See Kraus. Bob Lembke

Apollo; You should really consider taking a run at German. I taught myself to read it, and the old Suetterlin and Kurrent hand-writing systems, at age 61. I probably now read it on average two hours a day. Three years ago I met and had with dinner in Dubrovnik a German (literally) brain scientist, and he said that learning a new language is absolutely the most effective brain exercise for keeping the brain functioning at a high level as we age. English is in the family of Germanic languages, I believe, although the one furthest out, and German has the difficult Latin grammar. But there is a lot of shared vocabalary, once, for example, you figure out that "ein Glas Wasser" is "a glass of water". My wife can and does, literally, read in many dozens of languages, including several ancient languages. She has bought, on average, $10,000 worth of books a day for 30 years, mostly in one of the 297 foreign languages that her library has books in. And she is very English! So she proves that the suspected "English gene" that prevents Brits from reading foreign languages is only a myth. Bob Lembke

My quite remarkable wife has very good Latin and Anglo-Saxon, but weaker Old Norse; i.e., "Viking-Speak". She once translated the nonsense poem "Jaberwokky" (sp?) into alternate lines of Anglo-Saxon, Danish, German ( I think), and another language that I have forgot (French or Latin?), and supposedly got the meter and rhyming down beautifully, to the amusement of her professors. She is quite English (records back to 1480), so she disproves the rumors of the "English Gene", the one that supposedly prevents the Brits from learning other languages. Back to the PC, if the card had been sent in the more orderly Prussian mail system, the Absender Block might have had a lot more information. I don't even think that Bavarian Feldpost had to have the information. Bob Lembke

Apollo; There is a fair chance, say 50%, that a unit history exists, given the prominence of the unit, and about a 10% chance that it could be bought on CD. Unit histories are expensive. Often with old regiments there also are unit histories that extend only to, say, 1900, and these tend to be a lot cheaper, due to the lack of WW I material in them. Sometimes dealers are not completely clear about such histories when they advertize them. Such a history might be a nice companion for your sword, and like the weapon it is probably not a bad investment as well as a collector's item. You never know, you might wake up one day and be able to read German. I taught myself to read it when I was about 61 ("old dogs, new tricks"), and now I read several hours a day, on average. Bob Lembke

Hi; I don't see a proper spot for Austro-Hungarian weapons, units, etc., just medals. Hoping to catch the eye of Glenn J. I have just read Otto Gallian's Monte Asolone 1918, and I have a few questions. He is a Leutnant in a storm battalion, in December 1917. He mentions MG companies, and also Maschinenpistolen and Handmaschinengewehr platoons. Obviously lighter MGs. I would have a clue to the specific weapon in the German context, but not in the Austrian formations. What weapons were these? He also mentions that they got a Sprengzug. Should I assume a demolition platoon? Dynamite, geballtne Ladung? A Pionier Abteilung? He also mentions their Technischen Kompagnie. It is either in the context of the storm battalion or the infantry regiment. Special weapons? Telephonists, and similar technical types? Thanks in advance. Bob Lembke

Charles; The fellow does not live in the US. Why don't you give me a few lines sketching your particular interest in J=B Nr. 27. and I will reach him privately. I sense that he does have an interest in facilitating the memory of the unit. Bob Lembke

Hi, guys; For a guy who has posted a fair bit here and there, I probably am a nit-wit as to forum decorum. There is a guy who posts, I think, on another forum, whose grand-father was in this unit. He probably was an officer, as he later rose to be a senior Finnish officer. There are a couple of quite respectable senior pals plugged in here, who could give me some advice. Is it appropriate for me to "rat" on this guy? (I sort of feel that I would be intruding on him.) Bob Lembke

Good. We have nailed down something else. Chip knows a great deal about uniforms; I am fairly ignorant in the area. So Onkel Jogl almost certainly served in Turkey. I am currently reading a book by an A-H Feldmarshal-Leutnant (book is elsewhere, long name, sort of Polish, starting with Pom-------), who served in Turkey, and from thumbing thru the rest of the book and peering at the photos, quite a few A-H soldiers served in Turkey after Gallipoli, with truck columns, etc., as well as Germans. But the odds are that he was a German soldier. Did German or Austrian EM who served in Turkey but later than Gallipoli also get the "Gallipoli Star"? As I said, officers who never visited Turkey did, perhaps for interacting with high-ranking Turkish officers visiting Germany. Bob Lembke

Interesting. I am not much of a medal guy, but I used to collect Roman coins, and in the period say 1500 AD pieces called "fantasy pieces" were made in the style of genuine Roman coins, but often more extravagant in design. They were not attempts to counterfeit genuine Roman coins, but were recognized collectors' items in themselves, made by jewelers. So when I saw the photo, the word "fantasy" popped into my mind, before I read peoples' comments using the word. Bob Lembke

Sorry, I ran my mouth before I saw the photos, which appeared later. People did notice the "Gallipoli star". It is possible that different members of the same south German family could have served in the Bavarian and A-H Armies. Note from the caps of the German troops, the lighter Bavarian cockade (white-light blue), lighter in overall color than the black-white Prussian cockade most German troops wore. It would be key to precisely nail down the uniform worn by Onkel Jogl. I am neither expert in uniforms or the A-H Army. Can Glenn J. ride to the rescue? Bob Lembke

Hi; A few comments. No one seems to have mentioned that Onkel Jogl is not only wearing a curious uniform (probably not curious to a Turk) and a Turkish cap, but also the so-called "Gallipoli Star". While various German officers received these for service or situations outside of Turkey, an EM would usually get it for service in Turkey. It is correct that many Germans serving in Turkey simply adopted a fez and retained their German uniforms; for example the crews of the Goeben and the Breslau. Billed caps have a bad connotation in the Turkey of the period, I believe that there is even a cultural association with desertion to the enemy, so it was not just a costume question. In fact Germany supplied the Turkish Army with a limited number of steel helmets, and they went to the trouble of making them without the slight front lip. A second opinion has it that the lack of a bill or rim allows proper Muslim prayer, but I suspect that the first explaination may be correct. There were Austrians at Gallipoli as well as Germans; in November 1915 the Austrians sent a battery of 15 cm howitzers and a battery of 24 cm mortars to Gallipoli. My father, who served there as a German volunteer Pionier, saw the 24 cm guns in the area of the ANZAC bridgehead. Perhaps the uniform is Austro-Hungarian. The Germans, for reasons of secrecy, called their 30.5 cm mortar batteries (very similar to the 24 cm mortars) coastal defense batteries, while they really were designed to smash the Belgian, French, and Russian fortresses. My grand-father worked with these guns in Belgium and Russia as the Id of the Generalkommando of III. Reservekorps. Bob Lembke