ThaiDave

Hi davidck, This looks like a genuine one. But some others with this dealer don't: Laslo "repro" for collectors (read fake) described as genuine, but with an intermediate price : http://www.emedals.com/a-rare-first-war-thai-victory-medal-1917-1918 Other Rama V fake: http://www.emedals.com/a-thai-rama-v-royal-household-merit-medal-2nd-class-c-1900 Other major Canadian dealer items - This was sold as genuine, but was a Blass fake (Laslo Repro): http://www.medalsofwar.com/product/siam-wwi-victory-medal-type-1-official/ (went for $2500, but should be maybe $400 at most) Rgds

Oliver860 Take a look at: Numismatic Forgery by Charles Larson : https://www.amazon.com/Numismatic-Forgery-Charles-M-Larson/dp/0974237124/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1476730037&sr=8-1&keywords=numismatic+forgery However, detailed inspection compared with a known good piece is pretty good at detecting copies for officially struck medals such as most of these. A modern forger usually doesn't have full mint-quality dies and machines to duplicate this quality, However Chinese forging factories seem to be doing well on this. More difficult to detect are medals not made by a mint, of which many varieties exist, and orders. Ernst Blass is infamous for his forging efforts. And some areas are totally overcome by fakes - German 3rd Reich everything, Vietnam-era patches, and probably others. All the Interallied victory medals and bars are faked by Mike Shank as described elsewhere, and are often passed as genuine. Many of the others are copied individually elsewhere.

Hi. Speaking of this, a fake just listed on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/JR305-World-War-1-Victory-Medal-Siam-/201692847120?hash=item2ef5d49c10:g:wtMAAOSw8gVYA8w3 This is a Blass copy (Laslo referred to it as Repro 2). The seller responded: Thank you for the info., I see there are many types and thus it is up to the Buyer to know what they are bidding on as the details between the types can be very small to tell. I will be happy to answer any questions I can. Rgds RDave JR305-World War 1 Victory Medal-Siam.pdf

Hi Macchianera72, A little worn, but looks like a genuine example. You can see the fine detail, and compare for example with the other copies in earlier parts of the the thread. Rgds Dave

Hello Hoveyli, This is a Thai copy of the Prabas Mala medal (commemorating King Rama V trip to Europe in 1897). Although the original was made in France, this is a copy and the case is a fantasy. These, along with many other similar fabrications, can be found in Bangkok, ebay, and elsewhere; starting around $40 or so and up. If you search thoroughly, you may even find the shop where they are made. They are also often found in German and European auctions, without much regard for indicating they are copies. Even without knowing anything about these specific copies, or the details of the actual types actually made - It is pretty easy to see that it is a copy, as the quality of the strike, although seems ok at first, is not up to mint standards (compare say with a nearly unused coin for the quality of strike expected), and check the case on the insides show the original pre-aged cloth (check under the cloth on the back and between threads, etc). (Usually they are not real silver either, but some are found in silver and real gold.) On the other hand, from a Thai perspective, a copy like this is ok in it's right place - as King Rama V is highly venerated and having anything with his likeness is appreciated - especially if it is old-like with a nice appearance. For comparison, many people would be happy to have a Monet print on their wall, and not be plussed by it not being an original. Only a serious collector would be concerned for the difference. There are many different types of medals in this (Monnaie de Paris) copy series. Rgds Dave

Hi All, This North Korean / PRC Safe Conduct Pass is shown at this website: http://www.psywarrior.com/NKoreaH.html Rgds Dave

And a Safe Conduct Pass - looks like for US/Korean POW in Chinese prisoner camp !

Hi All, A Vietnam-era (1964) Navy Training Course Certificate Rgds Dave

Hi All, Something interesting - Letter to my Father from Czech President in Exile Returning for Liberation of Czechoslovakia Rgsd, Dave

Hi All, Something interesting - 1944 FRONTPOST Allied Weekly Newspaper for German Soldiers - WW2 Newspaper. Rgsd, Dave

Hi All, Something interesting - Free Philippines Airborne WW2 Newspaper. Rgsd, Dave

bmsm, Some (North ?) Korean propaganda leaflets Rgds Dave

Hi bmsm, Following are some Safe Conduct Passes that I found in my father's papers. (I posted them to ebay, but thought they might be interesting to post here that folks can see them before they disappear) Rgds Dave __________ Allied Safe Conduct Pass for German Soldiers - WW2 Warning to the Inhabitants of Combat Zones - French and English version - WW2 Indonesia - WW2 - Your Eyes and Ears Can Help - Indonesian and English Version

Hi All, I have some TR items from collecting when I was young and from my father that I want to pass along as this is not my area - a helmet, cap, dagger, medals, and other items. After a search on the net, it seems a lot of places are scamy, and if possible I'd prefer the potential better price I could get by selling myself. Since ebay doesn't permit swastikas, where are good places to sell ? Rgds, Dave

Pieter, I see that the auction proposed a potential Thai award of 1919-1921. However, this is not concrete evidence that we can confirm that this specific medal type was used then. 1. The date of 1941 comes from official Thai medals department documentation. We presume that their own documentation is correct. The Thai medals and document department has been well established since at least the late 1800's and would cover this time before 1941. However, as probably none of us has read the documentation perfectly well in the original Thai, so it could be different. This is worth investigating further. However, first presumption would be that there is another legitimate explanation. 2. In all my discussions and research, I've seen only two cases which potential evidence of this type before 1941 (the case on this forum and another case on an old photo in Thailand presumed to be earlier than than 1941). I would presume that we would have more evidence if it was substantially before then. So as far back as 1920 seems less likely. However, probably we have not seen a large sample of such photos. It is worth looking for more early photos. This case is a good flag to look for earlier photos of him and hopefully show us something. 3. Just because we find a late model medal in a group does not mean it actually belongs to that group - could be fabricated group or for some other reason was added or replaced at a later time. We are presuming that the group is a good group because it is with a respected auction house, but it might not be for various reasons. There is a lot of fabricated stuff out there - In fact there are a lot of fabricated early Thai medals out there - like 99% of the Rama V material - but I don't see a financial reason to add this particular medal in this case (it wouldn't add any special value to this group by adding it). 4. It could be added later simply because it was not available at the time. The medal itself would typically not been provided - just a certificate. So the owner could have added the actual medal later - thus not a period medal even though the award was period. Or for example the original medal could have been damaged or lost, so as to need replacing. It would be unlikely that we could discern from the group itself if it was assembled in 1920 or in 1939 or later. (The ribbon appears to be more modern, not an early watered ribbon.) 5. It could have been added afterwards by another person. It is not uncommon for a relative to put together a group later, or for a relative (think grandfather or father). I have had several requests for medals and ribbons for obsolete Indochinese medals by people who have lost them or relatives assembling such groups. 6. (or another legitimate reason I didn't think of off-hand) I'm not saying that the Thai official documentation we think says 1941 could not be wrong or misunderstood. It is worth investigating further. A first step would be to confirm the manufacturing date of the particular medal example. Often they are marked with this date, particularly the early ones. I sent a question to M&E to check this. Or someone who has a chance to handle it could look - check the back of the crown, or back of the medal (top or bottom), or inside (if brave enough to disassemble). We may also contact the Thai medals document department to find if there really was an award to him at this time also (but this is hard to do). I have confirmed some awards from the early Thai gazettes in this way - but it is better if we have a specific expected date to confirm. This might help to confirm the award date. I do notice that the manufacturing is quite nice - it seems to be a type made by Benson, which is very uncommon for this model. It does look a little large - perhaps it is actually a 3rd class model. Rgds, Dave P/S Some further info about him is here: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=160510 Photo of him in 1917 shows only 3 ribbons and not this one: http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portraitLarge/mw94593/Astle-Scott-Littlejohns?LinkID=mp75456&role=sit&rNo=0

Posts of the Fake Siam version. (He has fakes of many or all of the others)

Hi All, It seems that Mike Shank has changed his ebay ID again, and now selling Victory medal fakes under the name "dlssha3" See here: http://www.ebay.com/sch/dlssha3/m.html?item=262087689306&hash=item3d05a4c45a&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562 (PDF print attached for historical reference) He now identifies for example the Siam version as "VERY HARD TO FIND" (PDF print attached for historical reference) 2015 10 11 dlssha3 _ eBay.pdf 2015 10 11 FAKE WW1 Siam Thailand Victory Medal Full Size _ eBay.pdf

Tim, In post 78, the one in dark brown is the one from the ebay auction. The comparison example, in lighter brown closeup only, was previously being sold on ebay from UK as a "museum copy" about $25 . (My explanation was probably not clear enough above.) The reason the prices get so high, is that people believe they are genuine. They are not filling a space for more than $300 when there are better copies for only $50 and space fillers for $25... For a cheaper copy, there is one US seller always selling them for about $50 each. He has them made in Thailand. They are then aged. The seller identifies them as reproductions, but following sellers don't. These are more dangerous due to the aging, and sometimes people feel they are genuine or "local made" contemporary strikes. There is another seller, Mike Shank, who is selling a whole fake line of Inter-allied Victory medals, including Siam, Cuba, Brazil, and all the others, plus fake US bars. Plus lots of other fake medals and patches. He used to get about $600 for the fake Siam, but as he got outed, this dropped now to $175 which doesn't always sell. He claimed that he didn't know how old they were and that they came from the SOS show in the us - bunk of course. This version is poor, and is marked "BRONZE" on the edge. He has changed his ebay name some times, now using mcstls. (See for example all these fakes just sold: http://www.ebay.com/sch/mcstls/m.html?item=221812633964&nma=true&hash=item33a510316c&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&orig_cvip=true&si=KFT2p7FAX%2F8qE5Vem0TMogOSfqk%3D&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684 (PDF attached for future reference) These fakes have been selling for years, so there must be hundreds of all of types of these fakes out there... There are a couple UK sellers of copies which appear from time to time, but are cheaper and even more rough (one attached = $25). See current ebay auctions (Links below and PDF attached and picture below): UK Copy: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MEDALS-WW1-SIAM-VICTORY-MEDAL-1914-18-FULL-SIZE-/141669026574?hash=item20fc21cb0e UK Copy - aka Museum Copy: http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-COPY-of-the-WWI-Victory-Medal-for-SIAM-/121714491123?hash=item1c56bfbef3 US Reproduction: http://www.ebay.com/itm/b0070-WWI-Victory-Medal-Siam-Thailand-/381322844880?hash=item58c89cdad0 Mike Shank Fake: http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWI-Siam-Victory-Medal-Siam-Thailand-/221812633964?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a510316c&nma=true&si=KFT2p7FAX%2F8qE5Vem0TMogOSfqk%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 Then there are the copies listed in Laso: Reproduction 1 - was made by Ernst Blass sometime back (maybe people remember when they first started seeing these ?). Liverpool medals for example has many of these (but used to only list a couple on their website - today I don't see them however). Reproduction 2 (type with "covered ear") - not sure where it was made. (maybe anyone know the history of this one ?) Rgds, Dave UK Copy - Medals WW1 Siam Victory Medal 1914 18 Full Size _ eBay.pdf UK Copy - aka Musuem Copy - A Copy of The WWI Victory Medal for Siam _ eBay.pdf US Reproduction - B0070 WWI Victory Medal Siam Thailand _ eBay.pdf Mike Shank Copy - WWI Siam Victory Medal Siam Thailand _ eBay.pdf Latest Mike Shank Fake sales - mcstls _ eBay.pdf

Hi All, Another copy example just finished somewhat steeply on ebay at 280 GBP: http://www.ebay.com/itm/THAILAND-VICTORY-MEDAL-WW1-ORDER-OR-MEDAL-IN-VGC-/181834886011? (see auction pdf attached, and medal pictures below) It seems to be the same striking, or its copy, of a copy previously sold in the UK (many were previously sold on ebay advertised as "museum copy"), but this today is a better example. See the hand details below for comparison. Rgds, Dave 2015 08 18 Thailand Victory Medal WW1 Order or Medal in VGC _ eBay.pdf

Hi All, A friend with family in Czech Rep. found a stash in his grandmother's attic of what seem to be US Army intelligence reports from the end days of WW2 and post WW2. Any recommendations on who he might get in touch with who is interested in this type of thing ? Rgds, RDave www.indochinamedals.com

Hi Veteran, From : Thailand’s Border Service and Freeman’s Safeguarding Medals, by Major Larry J. Redmon, The Journal of the Orders and Medals Society of America, Volume 51 Number 5, pages 29-30 Rgds, Dave

Hi Charles, It seems that they are gazetted for some periods. However, it might be a lot of effort to search thru old gazettes since BOT. If you PM me a potential dates when he could have been with the royal court, full name, and any other potentially useful information, I can potentially find something. Rgds, Dave

Hi Stuka f, I suppose this is a modern French made piece (modern but pre-1975). What I've seen that most people consider to be Lao made are quite crude (although Delande in Paris made some crude medals too...). (Photo of the back, which you don't have, might tell more for this medal especially.) A piece like this went on French ebay on 2012 09 03 for 245 Euro (~US $315.76) - the seller listed it as a 1950's piece (cannot vouch the veracity, but I presume this might just be an estimate that it is not an older piece). Recent French ebay prices of earlier normal French made pieces have been (2014 only) : 2014 02 22 - 363 Euro sold 2014 03 27 - listed at 800 Euro, but pulled (presumable sold off-ebay at a lower price) 2014 04 26 - listed at 450 Euro, but sold at best offer price (unknown price) It's not the current Thai made version floating around (meaning, doesn't look like a copy). Rgds, Dave

Hi Stuka f, THe later French pieces can be quite shinny. Do you have a picture of the back ? For more examples, see: http://indochinamedals.com/laos/ls01_order_of_the_million_elephants_and_the_white_parasol.html Rgds, Dave

Hi All, I've been using polypropylene archival protectors in binders. There are various sizes, they are archival, and in the presentation binders they are convenient to access and transport. I keep them laying flat. http://www.rexart.com/ppc_start1.html#4672 http://www.rexart.com/ppc_nr_refills.html For larger than 24" x 18", I use the Alvin print protectors (although these are not ideal, because they have a thick edge and take much more room - I found no alternative) http://www.rexart.com/alv_print_protectors.html#12075 For the larger Alvin print protectors, I keep them in a Prat portfolio http://www.rexart.com/ppc_s1_portfolio.html (Portfolio is without the multi-ring clips, whereas presentation binder has the clips to hold the pages) That's about the best I could find for archival protection. However, if you go with a conservation service, I read that they will put into mylar envelopes and seal the edges. However, I don't know the details of any such service. (Still should probably keep in a large flat box, or one of the Prat portfolio for convenience.) Rgds, Dave www.indochinamedals.com