Chip

Chris, I can't see the date, but I am assuming that this is a faded gray breadbag? Interesting to see it with the pre-1914 (rotbraun) shoulder strap. Nice maker and unit markings. Always a plus! Chip

Chris, I have understood that these were from the WWI period. Chip

Chris, I like that Afrikakorps gas mask can! Chip

Vic, Very interesting material. Thanks for assembling it and making it available. My only suggestion for improvement would be to enlarge many of the photos (if space permits). Best regards, Chip

Well,.....no. Chip

Train guys did have balls! Chip

Roeland, It looks like your cap has a correct Bavarian officer's cockade on the band. I am not sure what the top cockade is, but what you need to replace it would look like this... Chip

Chris, Yep, Rheinisches Train Batl.Nr.8. (Prussian). Chip

I believe that the back of the tag reads, "Furstl. Schaumburg Lippe Hausorden Offz. Ehrenkreuz". The front of the tag is a bit too small for me to make out all of the words. Thanks for showing this very beautiful piece. Chip

Roeland, This looks more like a medical cap to me. A Train officer's cap would not have the red piping. Also, the top cockade should be the national colors. Chip

dond, Glen J. has access to the AKOs. Perhaps he might see this and take a look at the ones produced around this date. Chip

The coat has a few similarities to an early style military overcoat, but in general, it is not even close. I suspect the seller was getting defensive because he had guessed at the identification. I think Rick is right in that it is not a military coat. Chip

Chris, The badge with Probe tag attached, but not shown, is in Kraus on page 321. The sample is dated Feb.8, 1916. Chip

Wait a minute Ed. Stealing material? How did we get there? I was lead to understand that this material was made into PDFs so it could be made available for others to use. Otherwise, what's the point of making and posting PDFs? No one is talking about making a profit or doing anything else that is asked in the limitations. Like Paul, I've got to ask what you are suggesting? Chip

Joel, Given the condition on the inside, I would just leave it as is. A liner would likely not match the rough condition and would look inappropriate. Chip

Robert, Your flyer (not G?ring) is a serious looking chap. It is impossible to tell from what he is wearing if he is in the military or not. Officer's often wore white shirts and ties, especially with the Litewka. I think perhaps the only indication would be from whatever that device is that he is leaning on. I am not aircraft specialist, so someone else will have to figure that out. Chip

Congratulations Joel, It looks good from the outside and will probably look better with some TLC. Chip

The gray flannel type lining on the inside looks British too. The seller has other questionable items, like a Swiss gray tunic that is identified as a Feldgrau German tunic. Funny, the ink stamped owner's name inside is "Bern". Chip

Kevin, There was a similar looking canvas cap that was issued to the troops in Macedonia, but this was not even anticipated in 1914 and the cap was not wool. I'm still thinking about this, but I just can't come up with any logical explanations. The unit marking on the front of the cap would not be on it as issued, so it must have been added later. There were painted-on insignia during the war and they appeared on spiked helmet covers and trench helmets. So, it is not out of the realm of possibility that these numbers could have been done this way. Chip

Kevin, While it sure is interesting, there is nothing in any literature or period photos that I know of that would substanciate its existence. If it truely was an issue piece, you would think there would be some knowledge or record of it out there. The German army of 1914 did not have an issued cloth visored cap. The gray chinstraps were not used on issued caps until after September of 1915. Finally, the Kammerstempel look to similar to me, that is to say, one does not normally see the various markings done in the same size and font. My only guess is that if it is of the period, it may be a captured cap (Bulgarian?) that has been "upgraded" by someone. Chip

Would there be a problem if Americans downloaded the files and then e-mailed them to others who are blocked? Chip

OK, this is looking more like something is going on that I don't understand. So Chris, why do you think some of these men are wearing the badge? Obviously, this is not a MGSSA. So what are the requirements for wearing the badge? When did the original intent of the badge change or was this possible from the beginning? I think I know more than I did before by having seen this photo. It still leaves unanswered questions. Perhaps Glenn can pick something out of the A.K.O.s? Kraus says, "From January 1916 onwards, experienced soldiers were trained as machine gun marksmen to be deployed in army reserve units..." He goes on to say that in the autumn of 1916 these 200 marksmen units were formed into the MGSSA. So it sounds like these marksmen could have gotten the badge in the period between its introduction in February of 1916 and the establishment of the MGSSA in the Fall. This would mean that there were men in these small marksmen units, serving with the reserves before the establishment of the Abteilungs that could have been wearing this badge. Chris, is there a date on your photo? Chip

Thanks again Dave. Chip

dond, So, are you saying that any machine gunner that had some sort of training beyond the basic MG training would get this badge? OK, I can see that as a theory. I'm not saying that this idea is not possible, I am saying that I have never seen or heard of anything from the period that supports it thus far. What in the photographic record shows that soldiers other than those of MGSS units are wearing this badge? I have seen photos of training schools with the instructors wearing the badges and the students not. I have also seen pictures of MGSS units where all of the menbers are not wearing the badge. I don't think I have ever seen anything that specifically has men from a regimental MG company wearing the badge and explains why they are doing so. Perhaps Chris' photo could shed some light on the subject. I'm willing to learn something new, but I am from the "Show Me" state. Best regards, Chip

Quite a coincidence, as my photo is a man from the same regiment. I would have to find my list of the winners of this insignia, but I think that it is quite possible that these two soldiers were in the same company in 1904! Chip