Bryan

Welcome to the forum Mabuse! Braunschweig is the city were I learned how to speak German. I wonder why I never saw any Soviet orders for sale on Bohlweg.

All interesting points that you have brought guys. Thanks for this nice discussion!

Very objective Christian!

What I want to express does not only concern the number of Germans killed in action, but I'd like to know if inflated feats were often written on award citations. I don?t think these were really made for propaganda only. Maybe I didn't express myself very clearly. May be the citations were written on the high side in order to get an advancement or simply to fulfill the orders given by the highest commandment. For sure there might have been issues that were used for propaganda, like the posthumous HSU to Alexander Matrosov. Was he a real hero or was the story around him made up? However my question doesn?t refer to this kind of feats, but more to the common feats.

Christian that would be more than welcome! I really like Tito era orders and I guess if a comprehensive guide about Yugoslavian Awards was written, much more people would be interested to know more about this nation among the collector community. And if research is somehow available that would so NICE !!! I guess you are the right man to make pressure on this issue. Good luck my friend! By the way, there is a real lack of information about Yugoslavian awards among foreigners. Any guide or information is always welcome!

I was just wondering if you think that many of the citations we can get while researching an award could be exaggerated only to fulfill propaganda issues or for other reasons. I mean we can get a citation where it says the soldier in question had killed 20 German fascists, but he might only have killed 2 on that day. Do you think that is something that happens very often or just sometimes? I?d like to know your opinion on this issue.

That's interesting. There were 10,384 3rd Class awarded, but you can find them as high as in the 28,000. So there is a lot of 3rd Class on the market that comes from stocks in former Yugoslavia. I have read somewhere that the orders weren't awarded in chorological order.

As far as I know, these were also issued to Russians who fought in Yugoslavia. There is no real way to say if it?s a wartime issue piece because the orders made by the MONETNY DVOR were also given after the war. What is for sure is that all IKOM made orders are post-war issued. The Russian orders were made during the war The first shipment from the Soviet Union was in 1944 and the firsts to be awarded were on September 7th 1944. A collector said on an other forum that these have been awarded : 1st class 627 from 1944-1980 2nd class 1531 from 1944-1972 3rd class 10384 from 1944-1972 There were 3 main shipments from the Soviet Union to Yugoslavia: 1. September 1944 : 1st class 1000 orders,2nd class 1750 orders and 3rd class 4000 orders 2. October 1944 :1st class 2116, 2nd class 3588 and 3rd class 8100 orders. 3. June 1945-2nd class 3000 and 3rd class 10000 orders, no 1st classes. The forum member said that these are figures from the official list of orders from the chancellery in Belgrade from 1987. The IKOM Partisan Stars 3rd Class start around the serial number 22,000 and these are for sure post-war.

The Partisan Star was awarded in 3 Classes: 1st Class: Red Star with gold laurel wreath, 2nd Class: Red Star with silver laurel wreath and the 3rd Class: Red Star with crossed riffles. The order was instituted on August 15th 1943. It was awarded to partisans who had shown exceptional leadership and bravery in the war. The red five-pointed star was initially used by the partisan fighters as the symbol of the liberation movement and the communist revolution. Since the very beginning, the symbol was also used on the national tricolour flags carried by the partisan units. So they also put the Red Star on this nice order.

On the Mondvor Partisan Stars, the Russian made an error and spelled wrong the inscription in Slovenian language. Instead of STOLPNJE it should be STOPNJE. The word STOPNJE means "grade" in slovenian (or "class" I guess) . I heard that on first and second class you can find them with Croatian and Serb inscriptions in Latin and in Cyrillic. You should be able to get a 3rd Class from the Monetny Dvor for around $50 and one from the IKOM at $35. I would better save the money for a Monetny Dvor. These are much nicer! Instead of collecting Mongolian awards like many members here, I decided to make a Yugoslavian collection. These are very nice and much cheaper than the Mongolian ones. They are also numbered, so who knows maybe one day research will be availible.

I will add my voice with the other members. Thanks for your participation on this great forum!

Sorry to contradict you Gerd, but the tower in the middle of the Medal for the 800th Birthday of Moscow is not the Spasskaya tower, but the Blagoveshchenskaya tower. See below : Your thread as been completly high-jacked!

I like your brass screw nut. On my Mondvor Partisan stars I only have the "aluminium" type screw nut.

Hi Peter, yes it is! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spassky_Tower#Spasskaya

Thanks Gerd! I guess I'll have to wait few years before getting the 1st Class. It's too expensive for me.

Partisan Star 3rd Class WWII made Monetny Dvor and post-WWII made from the IKOM in Zagreb. The enamel is much nicer on Soviet made orders.

Here are my favorite yugoslavian orders in my collection. They are simple, but to my eyes among the most beautiful orders of Eastern europe communist bloc. Here is a new addition to my collection. Partisan Star 2nd Class

I guess we should make the same difference with "Soviets" and "Russians".

Oups, I'm sorry about that. I didn't even notice there was a section for it. I didn't even thought about looking in the Eastern and Central european section as most of Turkey lies in the "Near orient".

Gramota = certificate

Turkish orders appear to be really nice! http://www.avsaribar.com/madden1.htm

It looks like that the reverse was heavily polished, so they could engrave a new mint mark. Look at the patina on the obverse and on the reverse. They are not constant on both sides. There is more patina on the obverse. The engraving is also very crude! Not like in my books.

Was he first supposed to be awarded with a Red Star? I see "Красная Звезда" in one of the paper work? If I understand, you have the rest of the group except the MM medal? By the way, your pictures are really clear and nice.

So does it mean that if I'm looking for Red Banners in those numbers, I have more chances to find a long service award than a wartime "German operation" order? I guess there is no special number range I should look for to get a Battle of Berlin order. Is the only way to find one, is to look for documented group with a Berlin capture medal? I just hope my question is understandable. It's written in sloppy English.

This guy is a member of this forum.