Vatjan

Because there aren't many Belgians who got multiple MID's. Jan

It means the veterans had to fill in a form an send it to the ministry themselves in order to be taken in account for a promotion in the national orders. They had to ask for it. Not every veteran was entitled to swords on the orders. You had to have a certain number of war"points" to get them. These points were calculated on the number of frontstripes you got, which medals you were awarded, citations, etc... If you had enough points you got your first promotion with swords, and 10 years afterwards another, and so on. Not enough points, no promotions, ergo no swords. Again, promotion here means, getting a higher grade of a national order. This has nothing to do with military grades or rank. Jan

I don't think he would haven been entitled to any other long service awards. He would have been entitled to a knight Order of the Crown with swords and a knight Order of Leopold 1 with swords. He probably never entered the demand for them, which is why you don't find any references to them. Then in the 60's he entered the demand for the next promotion,and seeing he would have been entitled to OC 20 years earlier and L1 10 years earlier the Government skipped these 2 and gave him the officer L2, he would have been entitled to if he had entered all the demands. This was normal practice, I have seen this in other groups. The promotions with swords were in no way linked to the military grade. Jan

The Knight of the order of LII would have to be one without swords, and is probably a long service award. The swords were only installed in 1939 and were meant to be a token of appreciation of the Government towards the veterans. Every 10 years the veterans would receive a promotion in the national orders in recognition of their war service. These promotions were indicated by the application of swords on the ribbon of the order. They would first receive a knight LII, then knight Order of the Crown, then knight L1, the officer LII and so on.

I think Hendrik has replied to this already, but anyway... 1) the firecross was only installed 2 years after the firecard, following a demand of the veterans for a medal rather than a card to prove their front duty. You have to know that following the war, the Belgian Government gave in to requests by different pressuregroups, of for exemple civil intelligence services, nurses, philanthropists and the like, and started awarding the war cross more liberally. This had as a result that one could no longer distinguish frontfighters from other patriots by just looking at their medalgroup. The veterans revolted against this and were given the firecard, not 100% satisfied they continued to put pressure on the government and were finally awarded the fire cross. 2) On the firecard you can only find the awards the veteran was given for warservice. No longservice awards or other are found on the firecard.

The firecard always mentions Ysercross, because the card was installed after the regulations had changed, converting the Ysermedal to the Ysercross. So the medal did not officially exist anymore. You will however usually find the Ysermedal in a medalgroup because most veterans refused to pay for the new Ysercross. Jan

The military established a time-scheme for every regiment, for the periods they were actually active at the front. This is why the time-line isn't continuous on the firecard. For soldiers who never left the regiment this was not very important because they received full rights to the chevrons and the firecard. However for soldiers who changed regiment,this was important because they had to have at least 12 months of frontduty to get the firecard. This was calculated following the regimental time scheme. Alternatively, if they were present during all the offensive actions of the regiments they served in they would also receive the firecard even if they did not spent the full 12 months on frontduty. Soldiers wounded at the front received the firecard, even if they spent only 1 day there. Hope this is more or less clear Jan

In one word: stunning Congratulations. Jan

"ROLF HOFFMANN" is what I read. But then again, my Mongolian might be a little rusty =o( Jan

Thank you!!

That's great, could you give a translation of his name? Best regards Jan

Yes, that sounds most plausible. This is unfortunately true for most of the orders in that list. Many numbers, only few actually in my collection. Jan

No, This was not mine. If it had been, there is no way I would have let it go. Great group Jan

I'm afraid we just don't know enough about these badges to give a definitif answer to your question. Apparantly the more commo, type of this badge was produced in such "large" quantity that they were still being given out some 30 years after they were made. I suppose at one point stock ran out and a new type of badge was produced, but when exactly???? Jan

I don't think they had a computer, when I visited this museum a couple of years ago, let alone internet. Bet regards Jan

Absolutely delightful I also love that order,... not sure I'll have one someday though. Jan

Different makers definitely, and different era. Although hard to see on the small picture, I think I can see the bilingual motto "eendracht maakt macht - l'Union fait la force" on the medal on the right. Which would mean post-1952 Unilingual on the medal on the left, so (very) roughly dated between 1909 - 1952 Jan PS: one could start a large collection by only collecting varitions of the order of Leopold II or the Order of the Crown =o)

reverse

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Found it :jumping:

I saw this or sale recently, can't remember where. But it is some sort of veteran badge, or "emigr?" badge for Ukranians in the US It was sold with the original medal envelope from a US manufacturer Aaargh, if only I could remeber where I saw it. Jan

Hi, These are all perfectly fine Belgian medals. From left to right: Knight in the Order of Leopold 2, with palm on the ribbon, cypher on palm is an "A" for King ALbert. Given for a MID during the Great War. Knight in the Order of the Crown with crossed swords.. Starting in 1939, all war veterans could apply for a promotion in the national orders every 10 years, as national gratitude for their war services. The orders given in this context have the crossed swrords on the ribbon. Special Labour Decoration, given to workers who were active in Labour Unions, and other labour-linked organisations. Best regards Jan

The bad guys are getting better =o(

The bad guys are getting better =o(

That would be wonderful, thank you Jan