Chuck In Oregon

Hmmm. No one seems to be playing any more. OK, here are some clues: She's Russian. She won the highest honor in her field and she was the last person to do so. That's why I think it is appropriate to include her in this quiz, although you may disagree. She is well known to Gorbachev, Yeltsin and Putin. One more: She is extremely controversial. I didn't expect an early answer from the USA but I thought one of our European members might get this one. Good luck. Chuck

I have never been offered a raised-border variant like that one. I doubt if I'd pay anything like that price, though. As for the case, whatever it is, I've never seen one of those, either. I don't think I would pay extra for it. What would it add to a collection? Sure, very-low-number examples are desirable, even necessary to fill out type collections. However, this is not an item that would tempt me. I'd rather spend the money on a nice group. YMMV. Chuck

* * * * * Thanks, Wild Card I only brought back a Chinese Tokarev. I still have it and the capture papers. The rule on my bird was that whenever we brought out a bunch of decent captured weapons, everyone was entitled to one each. We sold them all to TDY USAF guys who typically came into country on the 30th (or 31st) of a month and left on the 1st, in order to get two months combat pay. Combat. Yeah, right, at the O-Club, maybe. But I'm not bitter. Oh, and no offense meant to the brave USAF guys who spent their tours flying and fighting and supporting others. That TDY thing has been a pet peeve of mine for ... oh, never mind. The one I regret not bringing back was when we brought out a couple cases of WW II new-in-the-cosmoline Moisan-Nagant (sp?) sniper rifles, complete with the scopes and accessory kits. It would be nice to have one of those to play with today. Yeah, I know, I'll be seeing the "Off Topic" face for this. So OK, enough of that. So you think it's my turn? I realize that I broke protocol when I posted a question before we finished with Soviet's. I wanted to really challenge this group and I finally came up with this one. Who is this woman and why is it appropriate that she should be in this particular forum? Good luck ... you're never gonna get this one. Chuck

I got one, I got one!!! Oh frabjous day! Would you believe that I had one of these -- a PPSh, not a Shpagin -- and a case of Eastern Bloc ammo, in Vietnam? Chuck

... And here's the bottom half.

* * * * * Regarding age, do you remember the story I told about taking pictures of the old vets on Victory Day? Well, I do take pictures and I offer them copies if they'll let me take them. A couple of years ago I asked (through my lovely young associate and translator) "Where can we deliver the picture?" "Just bring it to my job" he says. Wait a minute. You have a job? Already I'm thinking I'll be dropping it off at a cleaning job or something like that. "Yes, I teach at the Tbilisi Artillery Academy, just come on by." Turns out he was an artillery colonel -- yes, colonel -- in the GPW. He teaches that subject every day (he's 95) and about half of what he teaches is how he fought some of his battles against the Germans. So, no problem being an OPW vet and, say, an advisor to North Vietnam. As for close-ups, sure thing. Here are two, of the top and bottom medal/badge groups. There are 1-2 that I have not found in catalogs. Enjoy. Chuck

* * * * * Aw shucks. If you live there long enough and let your interests be known, and if you keep your word when you give it (I could tell you some ugly stories about smug American ex-pats) you sometimes get a chance to buy the darnedest things. At that, I foolishly passed on more good deals than I took advantage of. What was I thinking? Who knew? I'm going back to Georgia on behalf of our charity for three weeks around Victory Day. I've already paid for two more pretty good groups that I'll post here afterwards, along with whatever else I bring back. Chuck

* * * * * Pretty doggone observant of you, Rick. This one happens to be SN 0632, although the 6 looks like an overstrike of, maybe, a 3. So, does the badge below it with the smiling face of Uncle Ho have anything to do with the medal or do you know anything else about it? I can testify that someone was teaching them how to shoot too darn well for my tastes. Chuck

This is my very small collection of Imperial Shooting Awards. Now I'd like to see what you've got in this field. In any Imperial field, really. Давай, давай! Chuck

And no, that is not the fabled Russian Two-Headed Dog at the bottom of the gramota.

This gramota was also his. The family had thrown away all of his paperwork for pretty much everything he ever won, as being of no interest to anyone. Sigh. The only reason this grammota still exists is that they had overlooked it. They found it only after we asked them to "look around and see if you can find anything else". Chuck

This sash belonged to a Georgian who was on a USSR international shooting team. They only wore these for official team events like opening ceremonies, award presentations and the like. The family said they no longer had his highest awards, just the sash as you see it here. Notice the medal from North Vietnam. They told me he was a marksmanship instructor/advisor there during the recent (to me, anyway) unpleasantness.

* * * * * I would dearly love to put a Voroshilov Horseman badge in my Osoaviakhim collection. That seller has had what appears to be the same example for sale for several years. I have watched the price go from $295 to, as of today, $545. I don't get it. I think I'll just wait until one turns up in Tbilisi. Chuck

Well then, how about Georgii Shpagin?

Here is an example of the badge without enamel. It is, by far, the worst-condition piece in my collection of Soviet and Imperial shooting awards. I couldn't find it the other day when we were discussing the badge at auction. I bought this piece from an unusual little guy who has an outside space at the Dry Bridge flea market in Tbilisi. He says that he dredges a few favorite spots in the Mtkvari River and that's how he finds most of the things he sells. Certainly, that extraordinarily polluted river would eat the enamel off of anything, and much of what he sells is in similar condition, tending to support his story. Despite what he says, it is at least possible that this is a grave-dug item. A third possibility might be that it was ruined when it sat in a flooded or at least very wet (and polluted) Tbilisi basement for 40-50 years before someone found it again. Of course, a fourth possibility would be that it never had any enamel to begin with. While I think the last is the least likely possibility, I admit that it is possible. I have never found a better example to compare it with. Of course, this doesn't shed any light on the badge we were talking about. I just found it today and thought I'd share it. Chuck

* * * * * Kalishnikov? (Oh please let me get this one right.)

* * * * * Are we talking about the same Avers-5? ISBN 5-86-208-044-9? IMHO, the drawings in Avers-5 are pretty good representations of real badges. They may have included some fantasy pieces, but I'm not aware of them. As for fakes, wouldn't a drawing of a fake look pretty much like a drawing of an original? <<Avers-5 isn't good book for professionals>> I'm no professional and I defer to those who are. I really don't know what professionals in this field use for badges. Myself, I use the Avers series to identify items and I am reasonably well satisfied with what I can find there. They don't pretend to be encyclopedic, just informative, and they don't pretend that their drawings are really pictures of originals. That's why I need other references. I'm no great defender of Avers. I have and use four of them and some other references. So far, for what I use them for I have never had a problem. Back to the badge in question: I am not qualified to judge its bona fides. You may be. I have merely given my thoughts about buying mint-condition old badges from someone who doesn't offer what I consider a reasonable return policy. Stogieman, OTOH, has had a good experience with this seller and he is someone whom I respect. His opinion means something to me. Is this a fantasy piece? No, it doesn't appear to be and no one has said that it is. Is it a fake because the original never had any enamel? I suppose it could be, but lacking an undisputed badge in original condition to compare it with, or a clear picture of such a badge, I'll just go along with what the book says and believe that is either an original or a nice imitation thereof and that the original had enamel as shown. I ask no one to agree with me, that's just where I am. I would welcome your proof to the contrary. It will make for an interesting discussion and give us a learning opportunity. Chuck

* * * * * That would contradict the entry in Avers-5, page 211, item 807. It's the one the seller references. Some crossed-rifle shooting badges didn't have any enamel, but I don't see any reason to doubt the book about this one. BTW, welcome to the forum gor. Good to have you here. Chuck

* * * * * Your personal experience carries a lot more weight than my non-specific misgivings. That badge, like I said, would fit nicely in my collection. However, I'll have to pass given those refund terms. They just don't make sense to me. Anyway, money's a little tight right this minute. I just wired off some money on Wednesday for a group that belonged to a 1920s-1930s personal pilot of a Commissar of Food Production. It includes a screw-back RBL with doc and some very early aviation society badges. It's coming from his family. I'll bring it back with me in May and I'll share some images then. Chuck

In the interest of full disclosure, I do sometimes sell things -- including Russian badges -- on eBay. * * * * * I saw this badge up for auction, too. Since it is an area that I collect and one that interests me, and I don't have one of these, and it's not too outrageously priced, I thought about bidding. That's something I seldom do. It is pristine, that's for sure. It would look great in my collection of Russian shooting awards. However ... the other eight badges he is showing look perfect, too. Yes, nine perfect scarce/rare Soviet badges could have come from an advanced collection. He does say they are a consignment. Plus, his feedback is solid. Those things weigh in the seller's favor. OTOH, the sudden appearance of nine scarce/rare badges in mint condition raises my suspicions. Also, his return policy is, in part, "all claims of the item "not being as described" have to have a substantial documented and objectively verifiable basis". In other words, no returns unless your reasons meet his vague and unquantifiable standards. If you simply don't like it or if the item doesn't meet your standards once you receive it, that's not enough. I would not buy anything if I had to agree to those terms. I seldom if ever post my opinion regarding the bona fides of items owned by others. At the most, I will post an image of something that I own that you can compare to an item being discussed. If asked, I will do that for two of his other eight badges that I happen to own. Accordingly, I do not offer an opinion of the badge here. I simply offer my reasons for staying away from this auction. Your approach is undoubtedly different than mine and I wish you luck if you decide to bid. Chuck

* * * * * "No more calls, please. We have a WINNER! Tell him what he's won, Ed." Thank you, Soviet. What was the clue that finally tipped you off? For being such a powerful figure -- once Commissar of Foreign Affairs, Commissar of Internal Affairs, twice Commissar of State Security, Stalin's envoy at the very highest levels of negotiations with the Germans -- Vsevolod Nikolayevich Merkulov is largely unknown in the west today. Merkulov also oversaw the massacre at Katyn on Beria's behalf. According to one web site, "when Polish officers requested the release of several officers in Soviet custody to fight the Germans. "They're gone," Merkulov told them. "We allowed a tremendous error to take place with them." From another site: "14 May (1941) -- In a secret note the People's Commissar of State Security of the USSR Vsevolod Merkulov informs Stalin, Molotov, and Beria that, ?beginning in the second half of April this year a number of employees of the German embassy are sending members of their families and in particular valuable items from the USSR to Germany.? He suffered the same fate as his boss in 1953. Forgotten and unmourned. Thanks a lot, Sov. You're too good at this for me. Chuck

Would these clues help any? 1) Graduated gymnasium (think high school) in Tbilisi in 1913 and studied physics and math at St. Petersburg University. 2) Was a detective for a couple of years in the very early Georgian Cheka Transportation Unit. 3) Friend and ally of Lavrenty Beria. (David, you were on the right track.) 4) Was powerful enough by 1940 to dine with von Ribbentrop, Goering and Hess. 5) According to Radio Free Europe, in 1942 he negotiated a possible detente with Germany and an alliance against the Allies. Good luck if you're still with me on this one. Chuck * * * * * "My people and I, Iosif Vissarionovich, firmly remember your wise prediction: Hitler will not attack us in 1941!" -- Lavrenty Beria to Joseph Stalin, June 21, 1941

* * * * * Hi David Thank you for the insightful comment about the Art Nouveau letterhead. The best I could do was "What were they thinking?" Sharing these documents is my pleasure. I'll post some more soon. Chuck

This is the proud Rostov-On-Don NKVD School graduating class of 1940, or at least part of it. I believe that the two guys in the front row with hard brim caps and rank insignia may be the CO and XO of the school. I can see a total of four badges on uniforms. Two look like they may be 10 Year jubilee badges of the revolution and the CO looks like he's wearing an Honored Chekist badge of some sort, but on his left breast, as opposed to the photo I posted in Rick's thread about "Eggs". I guess regs do change. You can also see here the unusual custom, still common enough today, of white-washing the outside steps. It looks just great, for about a day. The guy second from the left has (NKVD?) patches on both sleeves. The fellow in the front row-center is the only guy with a sword hanger. Maybe a Civil War vet and academy NCO? Who knows? He has a pen clip showing out of his breast pocket, which would have been out of uniform when I was in the Army ... back when Oregon was covered with glaciers. So, who's the guy with the hard-brim hat and no insignia? Their commissar? Why does the guy on the far left front row have a completely different belt? Why does the guy on his right have no insignia on his budonnovka? Can that baby-faced guy, back row second from the right (Opie, is that you?), actually be old enough to graduate from anything beyond, say, eighth grade? The guy in the back row, third from the right, the one with sleepy eyes and puffy lips? He's the subject of the order at the top. He went on to become the chief Georgian NKVD executioner. I think the order, dated July 20, 1940, reads as follows: CERTIFICATE Having graduated from the Rostov Inter-Regional NKVD School in 1940, comrade ______ is ordered to NKVD SSSR, No. 911 beginning ______ and is awarded the special rank of ______ . Secretary of the NKVD School Shelduchenko Yes, Rostov, not Tbilisi, and the stamp on the order is from the Rostov-On-Don NKVD. I can't explain that, but I'm pretty sure that I got the provenance right, that these guys were from Tbilisi. I'll speculate that maybe this is the Georgian contingent at the inter-regional academy. The distinctive edge folds and staple marks suggest to me that this document and photo were in a personnel file which was liberated somewhere along the line, maybe after independence. Someone may well have bady wanted this particular information ... or wanted it out of the file. Chuck

Now and then someone asks me to share a few more of my oddball documents. Here's one that you won't often see. It is a 1922 RSFSR/RKKA document (note the hammer and plow) attesting to an individual's employment as a gunsmith. I'm told that this was necessary to have in case of arrest for possession of a gun, an extremely serious crime. I suppose it was also useful to document your work book or to prove up your bona fides if you were looking for a job. I'm glad to have found a few people who enjoy the old documents as well as the hardware. I do get them wrong often enough that I'm embarassed at my mistakes. I don't know if I will ever be able to read Cyrillic cursive. But this forum is for learning and sharing, so here you are. Chuck