Mervyn Mitton

Simon - in my book I show the leather stock being reduced to 2 inches in 1845 - and being phased out in 1875. I also show the leather truncheon case - worn on the left side, hanging from the belt - being discontinued in 1887. From this point the extra linen pocket was sewn into the trousers,immediately behind the normal right pocket. Mervyn

Maurice - it is amazing what the 'power of the press' can do - a good idea on your part. Please post a picture of the young man in uniform - someone may be able to help. Meanwhile, do keep us up to date. Mervyn

Very nice photography - especially allowing for their age. Good to have the service number. Mervyn

Gungadd - a Please and Thankyou never goes amiss !

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_09_2014/post-6209-0-40377900-1410000938.jpgclick http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_09_2014/post-6209-0-86140800-1410001086.jpgclick These are two informative drawings, made by Bob Marrion - the 'H' Division plan drawer in 1974. I have shown them in the past - but, this seems a good time to repeat them. They are accurate and drawn as illustrations for the booklet for the first Police Exhibition ever held by the Met. Police - this was in 1974. My Home Beat had a wonderful hall above the Regency period local library. I put forward a suggestion that we have an exhibition - "The Police and the East End of London" . It had great publicity and many people loaned exhibits - we had over 30,000 visitors and schools bussed their pupils-in. We had a formal lunch at Bethnal Green station - in our basement - the guest of honour Bishop Huddleston, The Commissioner, Dep. Comm, and all 4 Asst. Comms. attended and then visited the exhibition - which was extended to 5 weeks. The top picture shows an H Division constable in about 1840. He is wearing the frock coat - in which the rattle was in a tail pocket. His top hat - trimmed with leather - is the first issue . Later it was made shorter. His leather stock was 4 inches high. Very uncomfortable it was later reduced to 2 inches and remained in use until the change to a tunic. The main purpose was that in 1829 the cult of Thuggees was very active in India - they threw a silk scarf with a coin tied at the strike end. This would be thrown to go around the neck and the victim choked to death. They feared this would be copied in England and so, the collar. However, it did have another use - it kept the undershirt clean. The second picture shows the new 'Berlin' Tunic and trousers - his helmet is the new design with the up-turned brim. Very few pictures exist of this helmet - and as I understand not a single example exists. This will date to the early 1860's as the Met. adopted the pattern ahead of other Forces.

Robin - my first thoughts would have been the Regts. having the belt and buckle surround - but, that doesn't seem to be the case. Since designs have to be registered , it may just be local wishes. However, there is probably more than this. We will have to hope someone has local knowledge - or, knows where to research. Nice badges. Mervyn

Greg - a very nice example - I don't see much wrong with it , mainly the wear you would expect. Give it a good clean and polish the leather. There were two patterns of the first Fairburn Sykes commando knife - both are quite rare. The 2nd. pattern is a little more plentiful, but in this condition, worth quite a lot of money. I hope you were able to buy it at a fair price. For the information of members who may not know the background to this famous knife - which is still made today - the British Forces - particularly the new Commando Units, were in need of a good fighting knife. Captains Fairburn and Sykes worked on such a design and it was approved by the War Office. Three companies made them - the Wilkinson Sword Company being one of them. They went out of business - I think in 2005 - and Britain no longer has a sword company of any size. Mervyn

Frank - how very colourful. Rather like South Africa where different insignia and Rank existed under the Afrikaans Govt.. The first Act of the new Parliament in 1994 was to change the rank of Commandant (a traditional Boer title) to Lt. Colonel and the insignia. Mervyn Too late Hugh - the damage has been done. I used to work in Sydney for an American Advtg. Agency and our overseas corres. was always US spelling. Took me years to stop using it...........

King Edward 7th reigned from 1901 to 1910. Therefore it is possible that he might have served with the Transvaal Police. Actually, two Forces were established at the same time - the Transvaal and the Pretoria. Do you know which Military unit he served with during the Boer War - I think they would have looked for previous service. There is a main South African Police Museum in Pretoria and it is just possible that the old records would have been kept. You will be able to find their address on-line and contact them. I do agree that Edward was a drunken old womaniser - but, to desert for him ! The Irish Guards were formed in 1900 - so, fairly unlikely that he would have been in time to serve in Boer War. The other problem I have is that the newly formed Transvaal Police would have wanted a military record as a testimonial - and you say he deserted. I am afraid that you may find he was never in the Force Mervyn

I am surprised that we have not had a greater response - although, it has been good - concerning these US $ Double Eagles. The history of US currency is very extensive and goldcoins of this size are always rare. Does anyone have further information ?

Sidney Street was across Mile End Road from my Home Beat and the original house site had become part of a brewery after it was demolished. Firearms were very short during the siege and many borrowed shotguns were used m- I suppose the old police revolvers may have had some jamming from lack of use - but I don't remember it being a big issue. Churchill and his Guards detachment took most of the headlines. I always understood that the 1910 pattern Webley Revolver served as the Station weapon for many years.

Frank - what did the changed ones look like ? Seeing the originals brought back must be a pleasure to all ? Mervyn

You are both - as the Feminist movements used to put-it " Male Chauvenist 'pigs' !" Having never married I do not feel qualified to comment further.......... Mervyn

The picture on the left has a City of London Sgt. on the left.. The inspectors seem to have different cap badges - perhaps a joint policing event ? The one on the right is all City Police. The very height of the two in the front rank indicates that. Min. height used to be 6 feet. The tallest City constable that I knew was 7feet 8 inches. He traveled in their van and no-one ever argued with him. The little man on the left with a silk top hat , is probably either a City Alderman - or, an official from one of the Guilds. The man in uniform on his left , would be a Beadle and his escort.

Simon - swords were issued to most Police Stations and kept in a locked rack. They were issued in times of street rioting, in cases of heavily armed robberies and particularly at night. Officers on grave yard duty - to stop body snatching - always carried one. You will find examples on various posts on this Forum and I will post a few if you wish. Swords were supplied by Parker Field & Co. official armourers to the Met. Police from1829. Most of their items were made by the Birmingham firm of Hiatts. The curved examples were known as Police Hangers, however, the Met. carried a longer straight sword. The frog of the sword had an overturn at the top to make a loop to suspend the sword from the standard belt.It was carried on the left. Most larger Stations also carried a number of firearms in the front office safe - usually a Webley and after 1910 that pattern was prefered. Again, they were for issue to any officer in emergencies. It is not generally known, but until the 1930's a Constable had the right to ask to be armed if he was on a dangerous Beat. Mervyn

Owain - very interesting background to that campaign. Thankyou for replying. Mervyn

Lars - sorry we didn't reach a conclusion for you. Whilst Paul may well be right for a Duke assuming his title in that narrow gap of 1887-1897 and being eligible for the gold medal - it will involve quite a lot of research. However, as you say - something interesting in the display case. Mervyn

Simon - Brian and I would like to congratulate you on a well thought out project - and one that will help to settle many outstanding questions on uniforms and dates. Mervyn

Paul - I have a feeling they were an auxiliary from the Met. Police. We had a number of permanent units that actually served away from normal duties - dockyard police were such a Divison. They may have had a slight variation to the tunic ? It will be interesting to see if members have any additional information. Mervyn

Steve - I am sure these will be of interest. Post them for him on the Sales section - with a picture. This gives all interested members a chance. Dependent on the number and the condition , set a sensible price that will attract bids. Spinks may be able to help with a rough price ? Mervyn

Andy - welcome to GMIC. I'm sure we will all be interested to see some of your early Grenadier badges, medals and pictures. Anything to do with the Guards is of interest. Mervyn

Jeff - nice to know the exact origins. I wonder how many were presented ? Mervyn

Possibly a catalogue picture from the recent auction of Scottish regalia ?

I'm afraid so Chris. Many were quite dissolute and there was an article on my Home Page yesterday , saying that the British are the most elitist people in the World. My family is an old one, but thank goodness I don't know of anyone who acted like this.. Mervyn

Please see similar post under British Medals.