Mervyn Mitton

Must be - looks much neater and cleaner. Did you buy these in the US ?

Mike - was the blade chrome finished to start with - sometimes people pay to have this done for their collections. Certainly it will make a difference - but, like always, a lot can be forgiven if it is a rare piece. Which bayonet is it - does it have scabbard ? Let me have a few details and I will check current prices.

Peter - Hi. What is puzzling me is the bronze - for a shrapnel shell cast iron would burst more easily and with more splinters. Better made cannons were made of brass and sometimes bronze - but shells ? I'm beginning to think this may have been for a mortar - the plug was put back after the fuse was lit to avoid drag on the shell and distortion in flight. Will be interesting to see if the British had any mortar ships in that area. The other possibility would be the carronades which were in use from the early 1800's - they fired a big shell at close range and were on the decks of warships.

Hi - Kevin. Pleased we could help - post the other items - I'm sure we can help. I have some frinds in Hants. Constabulary - but, since I have a home in Dorset I'm slightly more biased to our small Force (2000 people)

There were two parts to the die - this is the top and the crown is for Queen Victoria - as far as I can see. They are not rare - some 40 years ago I was offered the complete sets of dies for ALL of the early Police , Prison and Livery badges. Since they would have filled two garages and I was living in police section house, I had to turn them down - they were only £1000 ($1600) but, that was a lot of money then. I understand that they were sold to a company who silvered them and sold them as paper weights - but, separately, so you could not strike a badge. Quite possibly , some were not silvered or, have had it removed. Using a wax - or, resin base - you would be able to press out a nice impression. I know Brian would want one as he collects Staffordshire. Value wise - I should think you probably paid £15 or, £20 ?

Kevin - this is an interesting collection and particularly important in that they show the acceptance of the Special Constables as part of the ' fabric of society ' . I have a number showing police in humerous situations - going back to 1830 - but for the Specials, they have to be quite rare. I suppose acceptance came quickly as it might well be your own elderly relatives who turned out.... Nick - if you remember the early episode of 'Dad's Army' - Capt. Mainwaring and the old colonel - arguing over who should carry the Col's shotgun. So quite possible an individual might carry extra arms - all collectors know, that the more you lay down rules, the more often you will be proved wrong !

How this little thread has grown. Tony, some very interesting new additions - like Ian, I like the Duerr example - and you could use it to shave. Ian, did we welcome you to GMIC ? I will look forward to seeing your next posting. p.s. I hadn't realised that the one with the wooden handle took apart.

Darrell - a few variations on your theme. The Malaya one was to an African Constable of the BSAP.

Mike - I always find it strange that army officers' should carry such a small bore weapon. 6.35 is the equivalent of a .25 (Saturday Night Special) - I actually have a Brasilian made Taurus - copied from the Beretta, for the shop. Should I have to use it I don't want to break the windows - but for over a few metres I would have thought it a poor weapon. What do you - and others - think. Why not a larger bore - say a .32 ? I think your displays are very effective.

Hi - Kevin and welcome to GMIC - we like new members with a police background and I like them even better when they show truncheons..... You say ex-police , which was your Force ? Your truncheon is quite straightforward - it is a Special Constables and the date was for the 1868 Sein Fein up-rising. The original plan was to seize Chester Castle and take the weapons stored there back to Ireland for a full revolution. This came to an end when Sgt. Brett was shot and the three attackers hanged - the two ringleaders escaped to the US and fomented two attacks on Canada. Go back on this page and you will find quite a lot of history from this time is outlined. However, the Government panicked with the thought of this happening and thousands of men were sworn in as Special Constables all over the Country. The truncheon is a properly made one - probably intended for issue to regulars, however, the great intake of Specials left shortages and you can see that it was quickly painted with relevent details. The strange yellow colour is because the original white has faded. White was a difficult colour when they didn't have the correct sizings and fixatives and this often happens. Value wise - because of it's history and it being properly turned - about £100 ($160) I missed your other question - VR is for Queen Victoria and the 'Y' must be for January. Hard to say where it was intended for - things move around on this time scale.

Nick - as late as the 1930's a constable on a lonely or, dangerous 'Beat' could request a firearm be issued. I am not trying to be dogmatic, but the simple truth is that the Specials were closely supervised in those days - and could not just decide to issue their own weapons. There will be exceptions to everything and no doubt a photo will be found of a Special holding a rifle - but, it won't mean he was issued one. As for Ireland and Ulster - I never even considered writing about them in the book - just too far removed from the mainland style of policing. Did you see the interesting posts and discussions on this sub-forum some time ago - covered RIC and RUC ? Kevin - the origins of the Edinburgh Specials go back to the Edinburgh High Constables - a guild or, Association of leading citizens who banded together to protect their City and Property. They go back to the 18th C. - also Perth, Holyrood Palace and the Port to Edinburgh.

I googled under South Australian Arms. Hundreds of entries - as always...

Neville - I think Owen has a section on Homeland badges. Will have a look. Have just looked at Owens and there is a big section on all of the Homelands. Police, Prisons and Traffic Police all look very similar - they are on the metal badges and hard to make out detail.

Peter - I think you will find the Africa GS has the same colouring and stripes - however, the two thin inner stripes are green. Mervyn

Leigh - what an unusual subject. Something we just take for granted. When do you think they first started with the advertising ?

Brian - you're quite merciless - remind me not to get on your bad side....... The photos from Tomas are excellent. I had no idea that they were carried internally and had to be dropped whilst the plane was in forward flight. The chances of the bomb catching on the undercarriage must have been very high. Also, 200 lbs of high explosive must have had a big up-draft - so, again dangerous for the plane. This would make a great post if anyone else has photos of early bombs and release mechanisms.

Hi - Ed. I looked it up and Yes, it is the South Australian arms - created in 1984. The bird is the Australian Piping Shrike - on an Australian gum . Where do these names come from ? Mervyn p.s. Looking at it again - the wreath is yellow mimosa and the Crown - of course - is for Queen Elizabeth.

Gordon - very interesting. I take it that the uniform with the helmet, was West German. The uniform is not dis-similar to the new Met. - they dropped a built-in belt. However, I think they still have 4 pockets - Leigh will be able to put us right. Without the lovely Shako, the uniform looks quite ordinary - and you say it is now dis-continued - what a pity. The UK is doing the same with our helmets - it seems to me they want to destroy all tradition and reduce everyone to the lowest level. The tragedy is that no-one ever seems to complain or, make a fuss. I may be a little paranoid, but I feel that it is a 'communist plot' - read left wing universitys - to reduce and take away our traditions - what is left, is the same drab, grey uniformity.

Phil - please IM me .

The gun shown is a percussion cap - however, I don't recall a British weapon with a shaped stock. I think this is probably US and mis-quoted for ebay. With regard to firearms - unless shown proof I would not believe .303 rifles would ever be issued to untrained Specials. For emergency use - yes. Extra stocks were kept at main stations for Regulars in an emergency - i.e. a landing.

The ribbon is for the Imperial General Service Medal - 1877-78-79.

I fully agree with Leigh on the rifles - the two items were never together. Rifles would never be used for Police - only in the event of a SC unit being formed within a military unit - and then the badges would match. Very fine and comprehensive post, Kevin. I hope we will see the other SC collectors now add to any missing ones.

Hi - Brian , what an interesting photograph. Not only for the bombs but, also the nonchalent attitude of the soldier.(Why do the French often have their cigarettes in the centre of the mouth ?) Photos of these early bombs are not that common and to have an actual comparison in size for named weights is excellent. Remembering that the first pilots used to drop the bombs over the side, makes me think that these have to be later in the War ? Also, for the 100kg. they would have needed a release mechanism. I think it would be worth trying to find some pictures of French planes from that period and see if you can find a bomb being shown ?

Must have had a fuse and with careful timing you could get it to explode over the heads of your target. What is the weight and the diameter ? Have you checked to see if the diameter matches any of the guns in use at that time ? An interesting item - it looks to be bronze from the colouration.

Bob - well done. That they were used as identity badges during such an important ceremony makes them much more interesting. I wonder how large the contingent was ? I would suggest you go make through pictures of past inaugurations and see if you can spot the badge being worn - that would go very well with the actual badge. Mervyn