Hendrik

Browsing through some of the older threads here I came across this excellent question which appears to still remain unanswered ... In my opinion there's at least one instance in which a CdG without palm or star could be awarded : the Legion of Honour and the Military Medal were sometimes awarded with an accompanying CdG. As the the award of the higher decoration would already constitute the proper citation requirement, the CdG would in those cases be on a plain ribbon. There's also the point of collective awards to be considered : lots of CdG's were 'exchanged' between France and Belgium (and quite possibly with other allied countries) at the time. France would send a number of CdG's to Belgium and merely request a list of names from the Belgium government as to who received them in the end ... I can well imagine there being no ribbon devices on those. Belgium would, courteously reply in kind, so one could expect a fair number of Belgian WWI CdG's to turn up without those lovely devices as well. I, for one, would love to hear more on this ...

The unilingual Flemish box in my opinion merely indicates the manufacturer came from Flanders rather than say Brussels ... being in Flemish only probably makes it 1980's or later rather than earlier but there's no way for me of accurately confirming this. I'd leave the swords on : manufacturers sometimes use these when they feel the rosette is an obstactle for placing the correct wider swords there ... it needs more ribbon to put the latter on ! Just saving on manufacturing costs I think.

I would rather think it's post-1950 and even much later than that ...

Hi Laurence, You have the pictures in the wrong order : the officer class is the gilt one with the rosette on its ribbon, the knight class is silver/silvered bronze and without the rosette. As far as I know, there's no way of dating the Crown Order accurately unless accompanying documents referring to the recipient receiving his award are present. The crown size is not really relevant as lots of varieties exist merely because different manufacturers over the course of time have produced these awards. I seem to spot the possibility of a silver marking on one of the suspension rings but it could be the place where the ring was soldered to close it ... you may need your magnifying glass I've never seen a crown order with swords on the cross/medal itself. The crossed swords on the ribbon signify an award to a veteran : simple crossed swords for WWI, same but with a small planchet "40-45" for WWII and same but with a small planchet "COREE - KOREA" (or the other way around) for the Korean War. Sorry to say but the ones on yours are non-regulation. The "correct" ones have a broader blade tip (see pics of officer and knight class below). Also to be noted : the crossed swords for the knight class are silver, the ones for officer class or above are gilt. In case you're wondering : the palm on the ribbon signifies an award for wartime merit or action. The crossed swords would then have been added on the ribbon later, years after the war, when the recipient became entitled to them as a veteran (in the late 1930's I believe). [attachmentid=18745] [attachmentid=18746]

Hi George, I agree completely with Christophe : the design and quality points to this knight class being from well before the present model. The Order of the Academic Palms was instituted on 17 March 1808. The first insignia (1808-1866) were embroidered and from 1866 to 1955 these became silver (or silver gilt for the Officer class) decorations as the one you have. The design of the post-1955 ones is markedly different. During the 1866-1955 period there were, of course, many variations being made by several manufacturers. Although having too little documentation at my disposal to verify it, I tend to think the one in your picture dates from considerably before 1955 but also from some time after 1866. It does, therefore, fit in nicely with your timeframe.

Hi Ed, I couldn't find anything to corroborate a retroactive award of the Colonial Medal +"Maroc" bar for the 1843-47 period. It seems doubtful though (and hardly worth the trouble) as possible recipients remaining would have been very few in number by the time the bar was created (1914). In those days people didn't live all that long especially not if they had served in the more exotic parts of the world ... The Commemorative Medal for Morocco was instituted on 22 July 1909 and was rendered obsolete by being replaced with the Colonial Medal with "Maroc" bar on 15 April 1925 although the latter had already been in existence since 28 April 1914 and had been awarded retroactively for operations from 20 July 1912 onwards ... somehow there appears to be an overlap of over 10 years. I would, therefore, not be surprised if during that time both medals could have been awarded to a single person. To complicate matters even more, the "Maroc 1925" bar, very quickly replaced by the "Maroc 1925-1926" one, were instituted (resp. on 6 January 1926 and 30 December 1926) but only lasted till 20 May 1927 when the French reverted to the original "Maroc" bar. It does appear as if the powers that were couldn't really make up their minds about it all For the sake of completion : here's a picture of the Commemorative Medal for Morocco (1909) [attachmentid=18552]

Rusty, Thanks for that info but, as a result (and no doubt you saw this one coming ), I need to rephrase my earlier question into : when approximately did the changeover from type 2 to type 3 occur ? Hendrik

Hello Rusty, Thanks for the interesting information. Any ideas on the timeframe in which type 1 was awarded ? Hendrik

Hello Ed, I've heard that before and it's not unlikely I suppose ... I recall that within 48 hours of having the medal on my website, quite a few e-mails came in, asking me if the item was for sale (it still isn't) so I'm assuming it's not all that common an award.

Hello Rusty, A pinback of some sorts as you can see from the picture ... S/N reads 26682 and there's some other mark there as well (manufacturer's ?). [attachmentid=18460] [attachmentid=18461]

... and here's the Partisans' Commemorative Medal 1941 - Instituted on 14 September 1944 for award to those actively involved in partisan or political units between 1941 and the end of WW2. By the end of its awarding period (end 1963) 27,629 medals had been awarded. [attachmentid=18373]

Hi All, Supposedly this is a rare one : Royal Yugoslav Commemorative War Cross - Originally instituted on 6 September 1943 (the King's birthday) by King Peter II in exile for award to those who had fought against the Germans in Yugoslavia and to those that had rendered distinguished services to the king during his exile in Britain. The obverse bears the head of the king whereas the reverse shows General Mihailovitch. Production and actual awards of this decoration only took place after the war had ended. [attachmentid=18371] [attachmentid=18370]

And for the WWI collectors ... [attachmentid=18307]

It may be interesting to those not speaking Dutch to have this translation of the legends on the medal : Obverse : National Socialist Movement - Leader Mussert Reverse : "W.A. marches - Christmas March 1942 - "Hou-Zee" W.A. = Weer Afdeling, in my opinion the Dutch equivalent of the German S.A. "Hou-Zee" is rather difficult to translate (perhaps "Hold firm" is close to it), it's probably best considered as the Dutch variation of the "Heil Hitler" greeting in Germany. And here's the reverse of the Mussert Cross : [attachmentid=18021]

Many thanks for the kind comments on my site, Gerd I did make it myself ... easy, with Frontpage software

As mentioned above, the successor to the Italian Crown Order is the Order of Merit of the Republic. Here's a knight class cross of that one : [attachmentid=17931]

Thanks a lot for the very useful information, Tony !

Many thanks Tony for this information !!!

Lovely set - well done ! Slightly : more madmen are about as the same procedure goes for Belgian orders ... it's not just the Finns - I agree it's far from the ideal way of properly hallmarking the odd item !

Do correct me if I'm wrong : I have my doubts on that as the clasp was seen as a repeat award in WW2 of the WW1 award of the same class. In my view, it would mean there would have to have been a non-combattant version of the WW2 EK to which the clasp could be related in case of an award to a WW1 recipient. Am I making any sense ?

It's one more than I have ! You are quite right of course to wonder why the King himself didn't sign the certificate for such a rarer award. Haven't an answer for that either. My knowledge of Italian is more than limited but the document appears to be mentioning he personally signed the royal decree for the specific award (which is normal and to be expected) and does mention the "firmata Vittorio Emmanuele" etc. ... guess that represents his signature as verified by the other chap.

Magnificent one !!! (... mopping up puddle of drool that has spontaneously formed ) Could that be awarded on 5 February 1914 or are my old eyes deceiving me ?

David was just that bit quicker on this ... and as two of us say the same, it should be true

Don't know all that much about it either but here goes : Instituted by Royal Decree on 20.2.1868 by King Vittorio Emanuele II to commemorate the annexation of the Venetian Region which resulted in the completion of Italy's unity. It was awarded to Italians and foreigners, civilians and military alike, in recognition of the nation's gratitude for their services (e.g. also as a long service and good conduct award to the military) . This Order ranks after the Order of the Annunciation, the Order of St. Maurice and Lazarus and the Military Order of Savoya. It was divided in the usual five classes : Knight, Officer, Commander, Grand Officer, Grand Cross. Apparently the Order was named after the "Iron Crown", kept in the Cathedral in the town of Monza (of car racing fame), which was supposedly made from a nail of the Holy Cross. The crown was used for the coronation of, among others, Charlemagne, Napoleon I and all the Kings of Italy. Italy becoming a republic after WW2, in 1946, the order was officially abolished and replaced in 1951 by the Meritorious Order of the Republic of Italy ("Ordine al Merito della Repubblica Italiana").

Very nice indeed Tony ! Noticing the SA 1901 bar on the QSA, can you enlighten me on what could be the reason the Serjeant wasn't awarded the KSA as well ?