Bob

Just read in the Economist about a new book worthy of reading for this interested: "The Bloody White Baron: The extraordinary story of the Russian nobleman who became the last khan of mongolia" by James Palmer, 288 pages About Ungern-Sternberg

Yep, let's say around 6000-7000 during the first period (1 certificate = 1 award) and for arguments sake another 7.000 during the second period (decrees will have multiple awards (impossible to say how often this occured, not many award doc's and even more rare to find them with same decree nr) but there'll also be decress on topics nothing to do with awards... which would imply potentially 15.000 awardings. If we assume the third period is post-socialist then we have a decent guesstimate for the area of our collecting interest. Best thing would be: more documents, and research! :jumping:

Stealing from an email exchange with the captain: Until 1949 - All awards were given by certificate number ( no decree ) - Observed numbers range from 1686 to 5473 - One certificate number = one award Starting 1950 - Awards were given by a decree number (no more certificates) with one decree corresponding to many awards and thus also awarded persons - It appears the decrees started to be numbered fresh again rather than continue from the last known certificate number - Open question: decree numbers ONLY relate to awards or are also interspersed with decrees e.g. to build a bridge somewhere, defend against the pending invasion of Albania by foreign powers, etc.? - A known example is medal for bravery and medal of liberation given to the same person with the same decree number 1948 date 25.10.1954 - Based on my list, roughly 7000 of these decree numbers (thus a multitide of actual awardings but unclear how many) Starting ? - One decree corresponding with one award

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=9341 A VERY different numbering style and also the screwplate is interesting. Interesting! :speechless:

To be correct, it's the first time the order has been awarded to an INDIVIDUAL in 50 years. A few years ago a Polish unit was awarded the order (but this was a very, very belated awarding for WW2 efforts). I read elsewhere that there's also 1 US recipient still alive and 2 British. Any body with details?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_William_Order Currently (2009) only eight Knights of the Military William Order are still alive and all of them are over 75 years of age. Well, we have a youngster added soon! And here's the official site: http://www.lintjes.nl/_en/militaire_willemsorde/index.html

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3220411...nd__.html?p=3,2 Sorry - in Dutch! A Dutch commando fighting in Afghanistan.

Hello Elmar, Could you show a scan of your award in the relevant thread please? It's the highest numbered one I've heard of so am curious. I will leave it to the captain to give us hope for research :cheers:

Thanks Artan - excellent piece of info "from the source" which confirms that truly awarded orders/medals are very very few and therefore the documents are quite rare (and a lot of the awards on the market are actually left over stock). For Albania orders/medals enthusiasts, this'll be the next area of focus I suspect - getting the award documents which (hopefully) allow for research in the (military) archives at some point.

sorry - that group is stored away safely without easy access

Don't have my battushig handy, do you mean the interior of the top document in the last set of 3?

Anybody with additional data points? :rolleyes:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=748&...unit+9999\ The power of search And... the signature is from a bit of a "operate in the dark" kind of guy so it seems... Rubin Iosif Grigorevich, Lieutenant-General (1895 ? 1954) 1938 - 1939Commanding Officer 3rd Rifle Division 1940 - 19432nd First Deputy Head of Main Intelligence Directorate GRU 1953 Head of Main Intelligence Directorate GRU

Thanks! Not much, but still nice to know:)

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5226...20&start=20 See the documented group (that is, group of documents:)) of Zhukov medal, a mongolian award and a victory medal to one and the same person (mongolian?) - am curious who signed it, any clue? thanks :cheers:

And, as you can guess... I'll be keeping my eye open for SB nr 500!

interior

Another interesting document!

Here's a 3 country group! Of interest is the victory medal as I hope maybe somebody can translate the (Russian) text at the bottom?

Just in - nice brown udarnik doc with pic!

Sorry Doc, already gone Hauptman... this badge came to me from Berlin, and will now head to North Dakota!

Servus Uwe And thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I guess they didn't ask it back because nobody bid on it:) I'll put it in the lounge as a "freeby" for whoever wants it (maybe you?)

I'm heading eastwards in a few weeks and have flexibility to drive around. I've seen a type 1 in Tirana (nice to hold it in my hands ) Besides that one (in a collectors hands) there apparently is also one in the State Library if I'm not mistaken. So, the other ones: - Hungarian War Museum - a www link? - wasn't there also one in Vienna? - others?