peter monahan

Lawson Blakely, my father-in-law, earned the 1939-45 and Atlantic Stars plus the Canadian Voluntary Service Medal [CVSM]. His framed group includes a lapel pin [i think] for the Atlantic Ferry Organization or ATFERO, the very earliest group to ferry planes across the Atlantic, his half wing as a Radio Operator and a full size enamelled Ferry Command cap badge. I persuaded him to apply for the medlas in the early 1980s and had the two Stars engraved with his name on the reveres before i mounted them. On his widows death, last June, the family decided that I would become the keeper of the medals and several of his uniforms, which I consider a great honour.

I wore a plastic/fibre for three summers when I worked underground for the International Nickel Company [iNCO], which had a passing resemblance to a Brodie; low crown, wide brim. None of the miners liked them much until we were ordered to wear the peaked 'construction helmet', with attached 'earmuffs' [hearing protectors], when it was discovered that the new helmets didn't keep the water from dripping down one's neck the way the old ones had! "New and improved"! Ours were not metal, I suspect at least partly for reasons of economy, as the electric shock thing - which makes sense for firemen and rescue workers, didn't apply in our work places. I agree with Spasm, that this looks like a factory/rescue helmet.

Thank you, Brian. [brian, as you can see, is a 'Senior' moderator. I'm just a recruitey yet!]

Very informative - thanks to all who contributed. More ammunition for the next time I watch Ins. Morris with Mom and Dad, who are addicted to BBC television series. Also why my folks won't watch war movies with me! On the accuracy thing, Toronto ['the centre of the universe', ask any Torontonian]has for weeks now had posters on the subway, banners on lamp posts and full page ads in the daily papers advertising tomorrow's huge military parade to commemorate the 200th anniversary of US troops coming ashore and burning down much of the town. Hence our burning the White House in 1814, by the way. We was provoked! I only looked carefully at the poster this week and the three figures it depicts. The British grenadier is ok. The US soldier is wearing a BRITISH shako, just like the grenadier's and the 15 year old Native kid has on fringed buckskin pants! And that, apparently is as good as the Toronto Historical Board can do, because clearly none of the hundreds of re-enactors and historians in Ontario were available for consultation. And in a similar vein, the new visitor's centre at Chrysler's Farm battlefield has three life sized cut out figures out front, uniformed as Canadian soldiers from 1814. One is meant to represent the Voltigeurs Canadien, a unit from Lower Canada [Quebec] but the uniform is that of one of NAPOLEON's voltigeurs. Presumably what you get if you google the word and go with the very first site you come to. And that park is run by Parks Canada, our national historic body! Arghhh!

All lovely! These last look like what I'm used to as well - the 'standard' [?] width familiar to modern wearers rather than the wide ones in Noor and Odulf's shots. So wide ones from the Pegu [1854, worn in 1860] and the Mutiny and the Crimea [1855]. Narrow ones from 2nd Afghan [1878 I think], Soudan, Eygpt and South Africa. So the change seems to have occurred sometime in that 20-30 year window, assuming that all the examples shown are original mountings and roughly contemporaneous with the award of the medals, say late '50s/early 60s for the first three and 1880ish for the later ones. I wonder if we can pin it down any more precisely and whether there was regulation or regulation change involved or simply the evolution of taste and fashion. Anyone care to venture a guess, informed or otherwise? Peter

Gunney I think you idea has some merit and such specialized forums are not at all uncommon, as you may have noticed, on the GMIC. I'll shoot a note off to the senior moderators and they can make a decision. What is decided will depend on the senior moderators' decision which will likely depend on their estimate of how popular/busy such a forum is likely to be. The other way to approach it would be to 'pin' this thread, so that it always appears at the top of the Commonwealth Realms list of topics. Then we'll just have to sit back and see how many members have information on and an interest in CDs. Peter

A lot of the early medals seem to have been sewn directly to the tunic. In fact, this explains at least a few of the name erased groups one occasionally sees - bought up by long service NCOs to wear on their 'second best' tunics apparently. However, I've never seen this very early style of bar, so thank you both for sharing! Peter

Great! The best I can do is a replica Waterloo Medal, which is still sitting in my cuff link box while I find a frame and print to mount with it.

Jeff The census records for Quebec are not quite as easy to navigate as some others but they're not bad and there are some very helpful people on the genealogy web sites for Quebec, if you wanted to go that route to get more info. on WO Finn. There is an 'F Finn' listed on the 1901 census for Quebec, living in Montréal (City/Cité) Saint-Laurent (Ward/Quartier), Montréal (city/cité), Quebec Peter

15 when he joined the RN and 47 years service. He must have had some tales to tell!

"Cause you like them? Best reason I can think of for collecting anything. All the other excuses - investments, historical connections, etc - are, IMHO just rationalizations. We just like them!

They are a nice touch, aren't they?

I'm sure I recall reading somewhere that a very popular shade of green paint, particularly common in Victorian nurseries was also full of arsenic! Do remember that these were the same people who used mercury salts to cure syphilis, with particularly intractable cases getting the 'Vienna treatment": feed it to him till he starts to drool and get the shakes, then stop. With luck the mercury will kill marginally fewer brain cells than the disease. Talk about a Pyric victory!

I would agree in recommending either Redcoat - my favourite - or Wellington's Peninsula Victories, which, like Redcoat, is now out in paperback and won't break the bank. Havn'e read the second one in a long time but I do remember that it made a bif impression when I did as a good, clear account of a very complicate little squabble. I like Redcoat, though, for the primary source stuff and focus on the ordinary soldier.

One of my favourite bits about the RMP occurs in a novel by Gavin Lyall, a British spy novel writer. A civilian, speaking to a British Army major says something like "...Military Police. I believes you call them 'Red Caps'." To which the response is "No, mostly we call them 'those f***ing MPs'." It had a real ring of authenticity to it!

And of course there is all that nonsense which surfaced several decades ago now about his 'murder'. That was based, I recall, on an analysis of some of the many locks of hair he gave people as remembrances of him, which were found to have a high arsenic content. The explanation, of course, is that arsenic was used as a treatment for stomach ailments. I can't imagine why anyone would think the British government would be stupid enough to... Ok, never mind that. I personally don't think the British government, in this instance, was stupid enough to poison him, based on the international fall out if, as it inevitably would have, the news had leaked out. Anfd it wasn't as if it was costing them a lot to keep him down there, in the over all scheme of things. Nope, he just died!

Always a good place to begin a collection - stuff no one else appreciates. You'll either wind up being a trend setter or be able to keep collecting them cheaply forever. A 'win-win', as they say! Years ago I acquired some Indian Army [pre-'47] medals and badges because I thought they were cool and nobody else would touch them. "Unresearchable' was the conventional wisdom then. Sold off the last badges last year for a nice bit of doss. Now, Indian stuff, especially the early stuff is very collectable, and not just the Gurkha stuff either. Keep it up! Peter

Wow! and R.I.P. Sounds like a great fellow.

Using or abusing my ability to comment on locked posts: I think that Craig has made the right decision in ending this thread, not because I agree or disagree with the posts but because, as Harry the Mole so rightly remarks, this is a military forum for gentlemen of a military bent and politics, mine or anyone else's, are out of place. Thank you, Craig.

First impression, off the top of my head: the winged arm with sword is for sure French [Paras, I think] and the cedar tree is Lebanese, so I'm guessing the badge was made up in country for some group of French troops stationed there during one of the many periods in the last half century when international troops were there to 'peace keep". Locally made patches are very common for UN troops, especially in the Mid-east it seems, and often have some odd juxtapositions of devices and symbols. Recently saw one with French symbols and a dove - maybe on the British badge Forum? - which the savants IDed as theatre made for peacekeeping troops. Unfortunately, by their very nature, these badges are very poorly documented.

"wow! the teacher medals are Still awarded today! I believe the ribbon for the Imperial medal and the contemporary medal is the red,yellow,green national colors. the ethiopian teachers guild has a website, in English that mentions these long service medals." As a retired teacher, I'm all for that! In my next life I want to teach in Finland, where people who aren't good enough to get into teachers' college have to settle for medicine or law! Seriously, I wonder if the apparently short life of ribbons on Ethiopian medals is a reflection of the climate or whether they are worn on a more regular basis than is common in the West. I know that in the old USSR, war veterans wore their gongs a lot, perhaps even daily in some cases and, I assume, would have to replace ribbons and suspenders far more often than the lads down at the Royal Canadian Legion here in Canada, who probably air theirs no more than 4-5 times a year. I'm also not a bit surprised that the correct ribbons are not used as replacements. What tailor in Addis, in his right mind, would have kept rolls of ribbon for Haile Selassie's medals when the Marxists were in power and stomping hard on any vestiges of the old regime? There's a project for someone: locate or have made the correct ribbons and devise a method or organization by which they were made available to Ethiopian vets. Alas, unlikely. Great photos. Please keep up the posts! BTW, Congobrown, how does a resident [?] of Kenya wind up in the backwoods of Quebec? Enquiring minds want to know! Peter

I must say I agree with Chris. While "British Army" is a stretch A British force/army got its butt well and truly kicked by the impis that day. A shock for the Empire, without a doubt, and only partially offset by the valiant defence of Rourke's drift. In common with the Siege of Delhi, that second battle resulted in a very large number of Victoria Cross awards. I've always assumed that this was how the Imperial authorities reassured themselves that, minor blips like the Indian Mutiny and Isandalwana aside, the armies of the Empire really were the best on earth! As to Goodwill Zwelithini and his regalia, cost and legitimacy: I can only assume that the government of SA didn't pick his name out of a drum but, probably with great reluctance, recognized his claims as valid and consequently continue to support both his title and his lifestyle. However, whether or not he is the one true king of the Zulu is in fact irrelevant, an example of what my philosophy students learned to call an "ad hominem" argument: an attack on his person which has no bearing on the strength of his claims as such. "My opponent has no right to claim to be king and, besides, he dresses funny!" In a discussion of who won what at Isandlwana, King Zwelithini's claims are only marginally relevant and it would make no difference to the debate if he chose to wear a sun dress and calls himself the Planetwide Potentate! Either the Zulu did or did not whup whitey's butt or they didn't. I say they did. What the present King od the Zulu says, does or wears is no more relevant to that question than what the 1st Battalion, 24th Foot had for breakfast that morning. Possibly less. Respecfully, Peter Monahan

From tiny acrons are mighty oak trees grown. Very nice detective work and what can make this hobby so rewarding. Instead of an anonymous black and white photo an tragic and uplifting tale. Well done!

Timo I've seen this elsewhere lately. Yes, I'd guess a bazaar made wall hanger. The swords are vaguely reminiscent of Indian tulwars - the modern tourist versions of which almost always have that awful 'lion swallowing a post' pommels. I wouldn't give it house room, myself, but maybe some Fusilier from Belfast thought it was the last word in swank.

Or what the tailor had in stock that week, if the vet didn't know or didn't care what the regulations called for. And many probably didn't.