RobW

Hi Lambert, There is a picture of a silvered version of this unofficial French example, by Delande, in the French vic sub-forum. Not seen that often but they do exist. Regards, Rob

Rob, Send me a DM with an email address and I'll forward you the article when I find it. I am not near my collection or research notes at the moment but will be in March. Regards, Rob

Hi summersbrown, All good with these three. The two unofficial type 1's are both good. The one with the narrow wire suspender is a later production. It uses the same die as the central example. It also has the same die flaw on the reverse with a flash mark underneath the line of the cross next to the letter 'D'. Of note is that the ribbon is the correct Portuguese produced variety on all three. Regards, Rob To the mods, In order to keep these country specific forum topics clean I would recommend this post be moved into the larger thread dedicated to Portuguese vics. Regards, Rob

Hello summersbrown, Nothing unusual there on both examples. It is not unusual to see all the Belgian strikes with a wide variety of ball suspenders in differing widths. Given the large number of medal manufacturers and quantities produced there is a corresponding wide variety in the diameter of the balls as well. It's good to have variety especially when compared side-by-side with other examples. Regards, Rob

Hello ThaiDave, The Europeans are certainly not the only ones who have clear fakes/repro's in their auction catalogues that fail to amend their listings after being informed. I suppose when there is money to be made and ignorance can be claimed then some vendors will proceed regardless of the longer term impacts to their credibility/reputation. As long as the Siam vics are as rare and/or as expensive, we will continue to see this. Regards, Rob

That is very interesting Chris. It would also explain why there are unnamed examples complete with the original boxes for sale on the various auction houses. Regards, Rob

Hello Egorka, The Serbians did produce a Great War medal but not one that is part of the Interallied Vic series. Regards, Rob

Hello Oliver, A very nice example. They are rarely seen in such good condition with little to no wearing of the silver finish. Regards, Rob

Hello Rob, There is not a whole lot of information about the specific numbers of these medals actually awarded in each class. As far as my records show the medal was awarded in three classes: 1. First class in silver. 2. Second class in bronze with a rosette. 3. Third class in bronze without a rosette. The medal was awarded with a certificate although the examples of the certificates I have seen are not numbered. Thus we are no closer to identifying probable recipient award number ranges. I have an article by Paulo Jorge Estrela from the Instituto Geográfico Português from 4/2007 that does have a large amount of detail on this particular award. When I can track that document down I will look to get it translated from Portuguese to English. Hopefully that will provide some more context. To your second point about I have not seen any fakes yet entering the market although that doesn't mean there won't be in the future. Regards, Rob

Hello frankguzzi, To echo and add to Graham's commets; no it is not an unofficial type 1 (Laslo classification). It is close in appearance to the unofficial type 1 but it is not the same. The give-away is the base metal that has a very dark chocolate brown appearance. The entire vic series was produced from this poor quality base metal in the early to mid 1980-1990 period and are commonly sold on ebay like platforms. In particular to this specific romanian example there are a number of well identifiable casting bubbles on the lower 6 o'clock position the obverse near the feet. You may also want to check the rim of the medal for a casting line. Regards from Australia, Rob To the mods, It would probably better if this thread was moved into the main Romanian vic thread to keep everything in the one location. Regards, Rob

Graham, Without close-ups of the obverse/reverse it is difficult to tell from the posted pics. Give-away points are the J.S. marking on the obverse and the diacritic markings on the reverse. The images posted by Lambert on 13 November 2013 has a couple of well-lit pictures which can help with identifying the close-up details required. Having seen one or two of these items close-up it looks okay but you would really want to obtain some close-up pics before making any decision. Regards from Australia, Rob

Hello Oliver, Altogether not unusual to see the naming too see the naming inverted. What is more interesting is the size of the smaller name stamping on the 1793 example. Also interesting to see an unnamed example. Are there any signs of naming removal or differences in the obverse die? Regards from Australia, Rob

Hello Rob, Your item is an unofficial type 2 (Laslo classification). Of interest is the main planchet appears to be of a different composition than that of the unique suspender. This is most noticeable in the reverse pictures. It also looks like someone has cleaned just the main planchet but not the suspender. Irrespective of that it is an unofficial type 2. They have been seen in a variety of different finishes and with planchet variations that are extremely minor so I wouldn't read into that too much. Things to look at would be gently cleaning both the obverse of the suspender to remove the verdigris in between the roundels, as well as making some attempt to remove/reduce/clean the verdigris spot on the reverse. As this type of unofficial medal has been attributed to French manufacture I would recommend that you replace the ribbon with some french produced silk ribbon as then it would be true to type. A nice example in relatively good condition. Regards from Australia, Rob

Hello David, There are numerous close-up pics of official strikes for you to be able to make a direct comparison on the Portuguese Victory Medals sub-thread. In regards a price range, that is a vexing question only limited by what the individual collector is willing to pay to obtain a piece. Everyone's price range and limit will be different. Welcome to the forum. Regards, Rob

Hello Oliver, It is not unusual to see die differences on the reverse planchet of the Pautot-Mattei unofficial variety. Even in the two examples you have illustrated there are very minor die differences on the reverse. It is also not unusual to see the absence of a makers mark and BRONZE on the rim. There is another strike that has the square makers mark of M. Delande with the word BRONZE as well although that particular variety is becoming quite difficult to find. Thanks for adding to the list of examples. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, A nice French produced US vic with some rarely seen French produced clasps. These specific variety are rarely seen and are rare even among French collectors. There is a complete set of clasps including the rarely seen SOMME clasp. A great pickup of a French produced US vic with rarely seen clasps. Regards, Rob

Hello jhvelez, This question has already been asked, and answered, in the main French medal thread. In short examples of the Charles vic variety that do not have the edge/rim markings do exist but they are more difficult to find. A good place to start would be the French medal thread as it has much more detailed information posted there. Regards, Rob

Hi Paul, Unfortunately not. I almost stumbled across the vic when looking for a particular indian vic group to a member of 52nd Sikhs/Frontier Force Regiment. Good to know that the recipient served in Waziristan. Regards, Rob

Hello Paul, I have a vic to a RFM Dhaman Singh Khatri M.D. The information that was provided to me was that this RFM was a member of a Royal Nepalese Army Contingent of Mahindra Dal, with the M.D. reportedly standing for Battalion in Nepalese. Would you have any further information on these units? Regards, Rob

Hello Paul, I would agree that it is becoming a bit more difficult to find a Cuban vic in good condition, although they are much more prevalent in the market than the Brazil vic, type 2. A quick online search shows there are a few cuban examples for sale but some of them have been 'cleaned' which removes the lovely darker patina that bronze medals have. Ebay has a number of interesting rules which preclude obtaining items of cuban provenance. Depending on how much you have to spend you should be able to still pick up a cuban vic. The more difficult to find, in good condition, is the Brazil vic, type 2 with the Brazil vic, type 1 almost impossible to find. Good luck in your search. Regards, Rob

Hello Trajan, I would echo the comments above about waiting and obtaining an official one that is complete. Unless you can find a really skilled jeweller to re-make the unique greek style suspender you would be better off waiting to obtain a complete piece. The Greek vics are not that uncommon and appear regularly for modest prices. Regards, Rob

Hello Oliver, The unofficial type 3 (Alex Laslo listing) doest exist but they are extremely rare. I can confirm the details listed that they don't have the name Henri Nocq on the obverse but do have the 'O' on the reverse. Due to a variety of reasons I no longer post items from my collection here on GMIC but can confirm this variety does exist. I hope this is of some use. Regards, Rob

Hello Paul, There are only estimates of medals awarded which is not necessarily consistent with actual combatant numbers. The original decrees (Decree 905 10 June 1922 for Navy, and Decree 1155 27 August 1924 for Army) does also not make reference to any police personnel. Laslo quotes a figure of 6,000-7,000 medals issued, with that number drawn from a Dr. K.G. Klietmann work published in a 1981 OMRS article. Given the paucity of available records, and the difficulty of confirming any details, out of Cuba, I think we will be left with estimates for the time being. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, A nice pickup with the green Frederico Costa box. These boxes are also seen in a darker blue colour as well. Either way they are not easy to find in complete non-crushed condition. Regards, Rob

Hello Oliver, The list of Naval clasps and eligible ships is contained in print in the book 'The Call of Duty'. There is also numerous websites that have the complete listing. If you search for 'Naval clasps and service credits' you should be successful in your search. Regards, Rob