Steve K.

Chris Amazing! I've been looking for these guys since I've owned the banner without luck....and you found them in less than 20 minutes. I showed it to Detlev years ago but he mentioned there was no market for it unless I found the original group. I sent them an email. I'll see if they want it back!! Cheers, Steve

Details....

I found this hidden in a trunk at an old estate. It is nearly 5ft by 5ft and so heavy I'm afraid to hang it without the proper support. The details are stunning hand embroidery and colors that haven't faded much in 70 years. Enjoy! (soory for the poor pics, it was hard to photograph)

Marc The first bar on this thread is stunning......it is pure eye candy!! Steve

....Silver, silver alloy, silver wash, or any metal will not age in this fashion. The applied agent is very convincing, but there are patterns to its deposition that point to "unnatural aging". Look to the pin! The pin is important here because it's metal faces the obverse and reverse over a very short distance (the close-up shots show this better). Also, the lazing arcs the metal in tight spots especially at corners and leaves a black residue (look where the tabs connect the wings to the wreath and the entire reverse of the plane). This is a key to spotting these fakes. SO this is a case where the details of the fake are better than an original! Steve

My mistake fellas!! I thought the bird was fake but the wreath was real....the right wing fletchings (when looking at the badge) look kinda strange. Interesting variation!! Hmmmmmm

Compare the detail in the feathers and you may find the answer!

gor Thank you for the detailed photos....I stand behind my original assessment! (the knights of ni would salute your shrubbery...although I am no shrubber) It does not age as I think silver (or silver alloy) should age. Look to the pin! Kindest Regards, Stephen

Nice Badge...and excellent photography work!!

If it is real Meybauer, it would be the first time I've seen a stamped Meybauer, and first time I've seen a Meybauer with a round (needle) pin. Is there any provenance to the badge?

Not good! It's pretending to be a Meybaur. Details to the plane and buildings are different...although the shrubbery looks good! (Fine detailed cut-outs are modern, I think, and it looks to be artificially aged).

more..

Does anyone know the maker of this badge?

Aaaarghhhhhh! What a beautiful badge until I scrolled down! Oh well.....I never knew the lower jaw was fletched...I learned something new! Thanks JTW!!

OK. It wants us to believe it was constructed after 1897, but no oaks to the EK, no battle clasps to the 1870 (but that?s not a big problem)?..however, all that time in since ?64 is not represented correctly or in a more appropriate position (next to the EK) for the time period it was supposedly constructed. Also, I would expect the 1866 to be next to the 1870 and not split by the '64s. This bar is a mess!

I saw this one too. I believe it's a fraud. Brand new shiny ribbons.....for 1864...I don't think so. Plus the metal used to construct the trap looks like that acid etched flashing you can buy at a hardware store (if any still exist beyond the mega-stores).

Hello Dan OK, I'll jump in here since this is an area that interests me and I'd like to learn more about these badges. I'm far from understanding all the variations for Imperial Flight badges but if this were offered to me, I would not consider buying it. As you mentioned, the head of the bird not being cut out is the first red flag. It makes the badge look "strange". Seeing the obverse gave me more doubts. There appears to be pits throughout the back which could be a sign of casting (and not being forged), plus the entire outer edge of the badge (viewing the obverse) looks soft (another sign that it could be cast). I do not like the hinge, pin and catch assembly because they look too fragile for such a massive badge, thus I would expect the pin to have some bend(s) to it but it is straight as an arrow (and not consistent with the heavy wear to the obverse & reverse). However, they could be just replacement parts attached years later as a repair. The catch is rather unique and is usually seen on badges that are post '45. The hand finishing details you noted can be carried over in the casting process from the original, so you would have to look at them very closely to make sure they are true. While casting was a viable technique used throughout the industrialized ( and even non-industrialized) world for many moons, there are signs that point to a more modern technique. Too many red flags for me, but this is just one man's opinion. I don't want to dissuade you from a happy purchase and I hope others will share their opinions. Cheers, Steve

I'm alittle "in the dark" about Jubilee commemoratives, so I need some education........ 1) Weren't they given only to those native to that particular "state"? So this ribbon bar would be a Badener that received the EKII and a Hessian medal?? Or maybe I'm completely off base... 2)What exactly do they commemorate? Thanks for any help in understanding these medals.... Steve

A point of interest for some (maybe) is that over the years I've found OMs to be either in near 100% perfect condition of the wreath frosting (almost white) or very well oxidized (almost black) wreath frosting. I wonder if this is a factor of: used pilot badges vs. unused manufacturing variations of the mix used in the frosting step various conditions of storage over the past 60years affecting oxidation rates or something unknown. I guess we'll never know. Still OM is one of the more unique forms used for a pilot's badge and one of my favorites....but I'd still like to know what your initials mean?!

Here's one of mine...alittle abused but still able to "run with the best" in my collection!

Extremely nice example, Eric!! Probably didn't cost you an arm and a leg either. That wreath is in exceptionally fine condition too...I just love the chunkiness of OM!! Congrats!! Steve

Too bad we can't see all the pictures in the thread......must be super secret stuff! I'm not sure what you are looking for....opinions on the badge? It would not be for my collection....the details to the gun and mount are not what I expect and are reminiscent of details seen on other known bad flak badges.

Nice Badges JTW .......care to trade?

Thanks for the comments fellas! You can't go wrong with Juncker. This one had the C catch wrapped around the pin. Nearly 99.9% of the time I would leave it alone but I had to free the pin. Thanks to my gentle metallurgy skills, it was no problem but not for the faint of heart. Eric, you're killing me!!

Hi JTW No LDO number seen on the reverse. That would have been nice! Still, its a combination not often seen! Steve