paja

Sorry to hear that, better luck next time

You're welcome, thank you as well for new photos. That #69K from my previous reply is not from my collection, I don't remember where I got that image from, and it's IKOM not ZIN So you managed to find 2nd and 3rd class orders, same type and made by same producer with exact same number, what are the chances for that Very interesting indeed My wide nut ZINs. 2nd class #1310 and 3rd classes #7657 & #19960 http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-7937-0-14194500-1394050474.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-7937-0-20911300-1394050481.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-7937-0-75321700-1394050488.jpg

When it comes to 3rd grade #73K numbers on the back side are different, larger than on the orders with lower numbers (under 70K). Here's one example of order very close under 70K with smaller numbers and hallmark (I mentioned before that somewhere close to that number could be the border between wide and narrow nut type). And here's one 70K with narrower nut, larger numbers and without hallmarks which to be honest is a little bit suspicious to me because circle on the back side made by the nut is wider than the nut itself. http://www.ebay.com/itm/SERBIA-YUGOSLAVIA-ORDER-OF-NATIONAL-MERIT-3nd-CLASS-/321270596917?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4acd384535&nma=true&si=XFtS5HQlsIFeEO%252FOLyq7IpEKUZ4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-7937-0-36279100-1394040585.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-7937-0-89480600-1394040596.jpg Probably the same numbers were used on this ZIN with narrower nut. http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-7937-0-54673100-1394041234.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-7937-0-42495700-1394041241.jpg Unfortunately I don't have more pictures of orders numbered 7XK for comparison. Problem with the numbers is that even the same producer used different ones.

Thanks for photos! I'll post couple of images of orders with similar numbers that I can find, most of them are from ebay. First 2nd class IKOM, wide nut, #10371 (yours 10391, probably made the same day ) http://www.ebay.com/itm/OLD-YUGOSLAVIA-NATIONAL-MERIT-II-CLASS-NUMBERED-ORDERS-/171197184594?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27dc25ba52&nma=true&si=XFtS5HQlsIFeEO%252FOLyq7IpEKUZ4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 This one is also without hallmarks... http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-7937-0-19357500-1394036949.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-7937-0-20014000-1394036957.jpg Second 2nd class order #12K if I see well has hallmark just a little bit to the right from the roman numeral. I have pictures of some orders numbered 13, 14, 15, 16 and I have seen 17, 18, 19, 20K with hexagon hallmark... Unfortunately I can't find images of orders with number between those two of yours so I don't know if 11K were also without hallmark. Even though some of those screw-back IKOM examples do not have hallmarks I would consider them as silver and it would be a huge surprise for me if they were actually made of tombak or something similar...

I apologize, I do not know how I missed this before, so you have 3 IKOM orders without hallmarks? I believe that those must be silver and that someone forgot to stamp them by accident or something like that. Could you perhaps post couple of pictures of those screw-back IKOM orders without hallmarks?

Greetings, About the name, I believe it was changed twice. They first made orders with wider nuts with the inscription "ЗАВОД ЗА ИЗРАДУ НОВЧАНЦА" (ZAVOD ZA IZRADU NOVČANICA - ZIN). After that we had those narrow nuts with inscription "З.Н.Б. КОВНИЦА" ( ЗНБ stands for ЗАВОД НАРОДНЕ БАНКЕ - Latin alphabet ZNB - ZAVOD NARODNE BANKE). Later they switched to vertical needles, earlier orders had ZNB KOVNICA inscription and the latter ZIN KOVNICA. So in my opinion the order was like this -1. wider nut ZIN -2. narrower nut ZNB -3. vertical needle ZNB -4. vertical needle ZIN I was not able to determine when were these changes made... When it comes to 3rd class wide nut type numbers I've seen them mostly in the range from three figures to 20K but I've also seen some numbered 73, 74, 75K. If someone didn't change the nuts there could be a gap. I don't remember seeing order with narrower nut below 78K, but I also saw some numbered over 200K. But I doubt they really produced at least 120K orders of that type because they don't show up that often. When I think about it they were mostly numbered either 7X, 8XK or 18X, 19X 20XK, so there could be a gap there as well. So if all of this is correct and if the numbers didn't overlap it could be that the border between wide and narrow nut types is somewhere between 75 and 78K. I am not sure about the numbering so take all of this with reserve, I could be wrong, these are all just my speculations. Now about the IKOM, weights and hallmarks. Looks like the wide nut orders have only one hallmark, rooster in hexagon (.900 silver) and that the latter type with smaller nut has two, IKOM and rooster. Are all of measures you gave us without the nut? I ask because non of my orders weights 33-36 without the nut, together with a nut they wight up to 35. The fact is that I do not have one of those very precise scales, but I think that even mine can not be wrong for more than +-1g. I definitely have to get one of those pocket scales

Astonishing set, my congrats! Many thanks for great images, I especially like close-ups of the coat of arms!

Too bad that the monogram and the year are missing...

Greetings Saša, Did you win that auction? I was quite surprised with the price it achieved. Any more info on it apart from the sellers description?

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-7937-0-74975800-1393935373.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-7937-0-53309800-1393935384.jpg

Thanks for the tip Paul When we're talking about the Miloš did anybody notice this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/SERBIA-Royal-REGIMENTAL-BADGE-Milosh-the-Great-not-complete-collection-/371006573875?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item5661b70d33&nma=true&si=XFtS5HQlsIFeEO%252FOLyq7IpEKUZ4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 Seller identified it as Serbian regimental badge but it looks like the back side of the Order of Miloš with the King Aleksandar's monogram and the year of the institution missing...

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2014/post-7937-0-47924500-1393438727.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2014/post-7937-0-74328600-1393438763.jpg

Civilian version found inside an old house in the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. Medal was within the original bag, probably never worn. http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2014/post-7937-0-73278000-1393438616.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2014/post-7937-0-51629400-1393438634.jpg

Don't mention it Georg, thank you as well! -IKOM 2nd class, wider nut, hallmarks, #19K 34g; 28g -ZIN 2nd class, wider nut, without hallmarks, #1K 32g; 25g -ZNB 1st class, vertical needle, without hallmarks, unnumbered 28g

As for the weights, unfortunately I don't have one of those precise pocket scales so I'll measure couple of orders with my digital kitchen scale -1. ZIN - wider nut with a nut 33g without 26g (#7K) 35g; 28g (#19K) -5. IKOM - narrower nut 34g; 30g (#93K) 34g; 31g (#158K) -7. b) ZIN - vertical needle (no hallmarks, unnumbered) 25g -8. a) IKOM - double horizontal needle (hallmakred, #142K) 31g

*SECOND TYPE - Silver star, golden fighter (1973)* -7. ZIN - vertical needle with inscription "ZIN KOVNICA" a) IKOM hallmarks on remakes, numbers also partially (or sometimes completely) visible. b) No hallmarks and unnumbered. -8. IKOM - double horizontal needle a) Hallmarks, high numbers, probably remakes. b) No hallmarks, unnumbered.

That's something that I would also like to know... Are there ZIN orders made out of silver because I have never seen one with hallmarks that was not originally made by IKOM and then converted. I'll try to make a list of 3rd class general types. *FIRST TYPE - Golden star, silver fighter* -1. ZIN - wider nut with inscription "ЗАВОД ЗА ИЗРАДУ НОВЧАНИЦА" Never saw a piece with hallmarks. Numbered - the lowest numbers I saw so far had three figures. -2. ZNB - narrower nut with inscription "З.Н.Б. КОВНИЦА" Again no hallmarks. Numbered - higher numbers, don't remember seeing one bellow 70K. -3. ZNB (ZIN) - vertical needle with inscription "ZNB (or ZIN) KOVNICA" Hallmarks on converted IKOM pieces, the rest without them. Patrially (or sometimes completely) visible numbers on those converted IKOM orders, otherwise than that unnumbered. Beware, sellers sometimes use this in their favor - they claim to have low number order! http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2014/post-7937-0-55687500-1393002032.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2014/post-7937-0-43514600-1393002043.jpg -4. IKOM - wider nut with inscription ">IKOM< ZAGREB" -5. IKOM - narrower nuts with inscription ">IKOM< (or IKOM) ZAGREB" Couple of slightly different types of nuts. Almost all that I have seen were hallmarked. When it comes to not hallmarked pieces I saw just couple of them over the years and I can't say for sure that they weren't ZIN with wrong nut (don't have the photos). Based on my experience -4. are in range from around 10K to 70K, -5. from 70K to 200K http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2014/post-7937-0-75389000-1393002079.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2014/post-7937-0-22402800-1393002087.jpg -6. IKOM double horizontal needle Don't remember seeing one without hallmarks, probably remakes, higher numbers, in most cases from 120K to 160K.

Obi, That is a beautiful piece, and I just love the blue box! Many thanks for great photos! My congrats!

Just one more from the Royal Family website. http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2014/post-7937-0-20588000-1392651497.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2014/post-7937-0-36427800-1392651629.jpg

Paul, Thank you very much for sharing that information! Petar II christening photo, I believe that King Aleksandar is wearing Royal Victorian Chain and GCB star. Duke of York was the godfather.

Do you perhaps remember which auction house and when?

He was also awarded with the Royal Victorian Chain (1934) and the Order of the Garter (1939).

I think that G.C.V.O. can be seen on this photo.

Excellent material for "The King's Speech" prequel One more nice photo with a nine decorations medal bar. I am not completely sure but the order seems to be like this: -01. Order of the Star of Karađorđe -02. Order of the White Eagle -03. Order of the Yugoslav Crown -04. Order of Saint Sava -05. Order of George I -06. King Petar I Coronation Medal -07. First Balkan War Commemorative Medal -08. Second Balkan War Commemorative Medal -09. First World War Commemorative Medal