Christian Zulus

Dear Kim, many thanks for your congratulations , but with your hints it was rather easy to make comrade Schmidt out - his beard was famous . Do you have some links (english or german) to Prof. Schmidt's theory, as Wikipedia notes: "In mid 1940s, Schmidt suggested a new cosmogonical hypothesis on the formation of the Earth and other planets of the Solar system (see Schmidt hypothesis), which he continued to develop together with a group of Soviet scientists until his death." This sounds rather interesting. Best regards Christian

Dear Andrei, many thanks for your expertise . So the special privileges for HSU, HSL & Glory-Cavaliers started (rather late) in 1967? Between 1948 and sept. 1967 they got nothing at all in rubles? Till the end of 1947 HSU & HSL received 25,- / p.m. (for their Lenin) and the Glory-Cavaliers 30,- for their 3 Orders of Glory (5,- + 10,- + 15,-)? Andrei, it would be great, if you could post some scans of coupon booklets here . I have never seen one. Please scan the complete booklet - cover, pages, etc. - many thanks! Another question: Guard Units in the Red Army got 100 % + in their monthly payments. Also 100 % + for their awards? When did the double payment for Guard Units stopp in the Soviet Union - also end of 1947? Best regards Christian

Professor Otto Schmidt Dear Kim, so our cool headed dude is Professor Otto Schmidt, the head of the Chelyuskin-expedition . Famous Russian academic for the polar region and the sea passage from Europe to the Pacific via the Arctic Sea. He points with his hand at the place on the map, where the Chelyuskin sank. Best regards Christian

Dear Kim, your comrade with the long beard looks like Igor Vasilyevich Kurchatov, the father of the Soviet Atomic Bomb : 3x HSL 4x Stalin-Prize 1x Lenin-Prize http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Kurchatov http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_atomic_bomb_project Best regards Christian

Monthly payment hierarchy of Soviet Awards Andrei, many thanks for posting that important document It is very, very interesting, that they got NO extra payments for "polkovodets" awards . My theory about that fact: Maybe Stalin & Co. thought, that a general or even an officer earn already enough money per month, so they should not gain extra profits for their Suvorovs, Kutuzovs, etc. As far as I can remember from the memoirs literature the sallery of a higher ranking officer or general (+ all the privileges!) had been several times higher, than from an private or NCO. At least our thread - due to your phaleristic investigations - found a "extra" hierarchy of Soviet Awards concerning the monthly extra payments (1936 - 1947) . So let us take the fictional case of a Lt.-Col. of the Red Army in 1945 who received 1 Lenin, 4 ORBs, 2 OPW 1cl + for long service: RS & Medal Milit. Merit. So this comrade would have got an extra payment per month of rubles 165,-. Gentlemen, that had been a lot of money in 1945 - almost the basic sallery of a factory worker! So from the cash-viewpoint a ORB hat a bigger value, than a Suvorov for the officer. Andrei, do you know when the (hughe) extra privileges for HSU, HSL & Glory-Cavalier had been introduced? After 1947? There were also some privileges for veterans showing their awards - i.e.: no queue in front of shops. Do you have more informations about this aspect? Many thanks for your expertise in advance . Best regards Christian

Gentlemen, at Suslin's photograph we can see the CORRECT ribbon of an Afghanistan "Order of Glory" . Best regards Christian Zulus

Dear Andrei, many thanks for the datas of the payments . Are my quotings for the Glory - 5,-, 10,- & 15,- - correct? Do you have datas of the other - Nevsky, Suvorov, etc. - orders? Many thanks for your expertise . Best regards Christian P.S.: I won't bother you anymore with the Glory vs. RS topic . It can easily slide into a historical-political discussion and leave the phaleristic field .

Dear Auke, great picture - many thanks . Sorry, I also don't know the comrade at the right side . At the beginning of the year 1993 about 700 Cavaliers of the Order of Glory had been still among us. Does anyone know the figure for 2006? Best regards Christian P.S.: There is also a third set of a Glory-Trio at the right border of the photograph ...

Gentlemen, what might be the asked price for this set, if the Glory 3cl would be genuine and authentic and if the Cavalier's booklet would have the date, when it was presented to the recipient? USD 15k + ? Best regards Christian Zulus

Dear Andrei, a few posting ago, you noted: Now you noted, that the RS had bigger value . I wanted to discuss the situation in 1945. The establishing of the Order of Glory had a clear political function: Motivation for the grass root soldiers - privates & NCOs - at the victorious end-phase of the GPW. So Stalin & Co. invented a special order for the comrades in the line of fire and made a hughe propaganda-fuss about the Glory. Due to these facts it is my humble opinion, that the Glory had in 1945 more prestige, than the RS. I know from the memoir literature how esteemed a RS had been during the Battle of Stalingrad or other battles till mid 1944. That is true: The Germans had no special award like the Glory, but the great bulk of the highly prestigious RKs went to low-ranking field officers, NCOs and also privates. Andrei, do you know how big the extra monthly payment was for a RS, OPW 2cl & 1cl, ORB, Lenin, etc.? Do you also know, when Stalin began with these payments and when he stopped these payments? Many thanks for your expertise in advance . Best regards Christian

Nice citation for a post-war Soviet General But for the second half of the citation a Motherland would have been enough . The Soviet authorities were sooooo reluctant to write the truth, like: "courage and skillfull leadership displayed during the struggle against US-aggressors ..." Akhromeev lost his life after august 1991: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Akhromeyev Best regards Christian

Dear "Orden Master", many thanks for your offer . Please send me an PM with your contact datas. I am since january 2000 the secretary general of this http://www.oejg.net society and I am moderating a website for Serbia https://www.openbc.com/net/serbien/ . So I have some contacts in Serbia. Maybe we can establish a sort of "supply line" for these nice and meritorious YU-Awards. Best regards Christian

Monthly payments for Military Awards in the SU Dear Simon, many thanks for your commentaries I assume, that is absolutly true. The extra payment for awards was stopped I think in 1947/48 due to the costs of economic reconstruction, military cost for the "Cold War", etc. I don't have the monthly payment for the RS, but for the Glory and the medals (in rubles): Glory 3cl: 5,- / p.m. Glory 2cl: 10,- / p.m. Glory 1cl: 15,- / p.m. Full Cavalier = 30,- / p.m. Medal for Military Merit: 10,- / p.m. Medal for Valour: 15,- / p.m. I guess, that the Red Star might have earned 20,- / p.m. , but maybe Andrei knows more about the subject and the monthly payments for the other orders. There had been changes in the regulations for HSU, HSL & Glory-Cav. in 1967 and 1975 (including Labour Glory & Motherland ????) concerning the benefits. Yeltsin signed at the 15th of jan. 1993 a law of the Russian Federation concerning the benefits for Soviet HSU, HSL & Glory-Cav., but holders of 3 Labour Glory & 3 Motherland are NOT included amon the beneficiaries! In january 1993 Russian newspapers noted, that ca. 700 Full Cavaliers of the Order of Glory were still living. So for a well decorated NCO - ORB, OPW, RS, Glory, Medals, etc. - it was possible - just after the war - to achieve a 50 % + to his monthly income from the Red Army, due to his awards. Coming back to the discussion Glory vs. RS: I forgot to mention one additional crucial point concerning the special prestige of the Glory among privates and NCO: The enormous propaganda Soviet authorities made around the (new) Order of Glory! There are a lot of posters showing soldiers with their Glory, as you can see at the sleeve of the red PMD-bible. All monuments for Soviet Soldiers show the Glory and if they show only one award (like here in Vienna at Schwarzenbergplatz), they show a Glory 3cl. As I pointed out some postings back in this thread, it was Stalin's personal initiative to create the Order of Glory and he invented the name "Glory". O.K., the soldiers "earned" less monthly extra-payment for an Glory in comparison to an RS and the official rank was lower, but there had been so much official fuss about this new award, that I assume the inofficial rank in the hierarchy of the Glory was among privates and NCOs - in the year 1945! - superior to the RS. Also the regulations of the Glory were definitly more ambitious, than these of the RS. Glory-regulations are at the same specific level as the regulations for the OPW! My feelings in that topic. Best regards Christian Here is a photograph of the monument for the Red Army in the centre of Vienna, which shows only a Glory 3c: [attachmentid=59879]

Dear Paul, many thanks . Literally translated I assume it means: "Brigade for Concerts at the Front" Best regards Christian

Dear Paul, many thanks for the further informations . Was the genuine name "concert front" (translated from the Russian)? The fact, that you got for dancing, singing or playing the piano during the GPW real military awards, shows the high ranking of culture in the Soviet Union of the 1940s - specially in comparison to Nazi-Germany, where culture had been reserved to the "elite". Best regards Christian

Dear Bryan, many thanks for your expertise . I have to try to get some good sources for orders and medals in Belgrade ... Best regards Christian

Partisan Star 2cl Gentlemen, a dealer in Vienna has a Partisan Star 2cl for USD 375,- in his shop window. The condition is with a lot of dark patina on the wreath around the red star. Without box, no miniature and no ribbon - only the blank award . I collect YU-Orders usually with (big) award, miniature & ribbon - as I have the Partisan Star 3cl. For my taste the price tag is rather high, but on the other side the 2nd class of the YU Partisan Star is rather rare. Usually the price for a 2cl is in the range of USD 250,- up to USD 300,-. Was their an increase in the market value of YU-Awards in the last time? Gentlemen, what is your opinion about the price? Many thanks in advance . Best regards Christian Zulus

Glory vs. Red Star Dear Andrei, many thanks for your informations about Krasnokamsk Mint . Good arguments and there had been also a certain "inflation" of awards to the end of the GPW. The "Long-Service-Regulations" of 11/1944 had been a heavy burden for those two orders (15 & 20 years of service). In 1942/43 - i.e.: Battle of Stalingrad - the Red Star was a highly esteemed decoration. In the aspect "Glory vs. Red Star" the main points in my humble opinion for the inofficial "superiority" of the Glory (besides 11/1944) are: - regulations strictly linked to heroism in the line of fire - regulations at the same level as the OGPW - perspective to promote to a "Full Cavalier of the Order of Glory" with ident HSU-privileges Also without 11/1944 the Glory would have been the more prestigeous and more wanted order for the rank and file soldier, I think. What is your opinion to my arguements ? Best regards Christian

Dear Andrei, where is Krasnokamsk located in the Soviet Union? Was it the mint during the GPW? Coming back to the original subject of the thread, Andrei, what do you assume might had been the inoffical hierachy of Soviet Military Awards in the year 1945 in common Red Army units (not airforce, navy, naval infantry, etc.)? For soldiers & NCOs: Glory ranking above Red Star? For officers: Suvorov 3cl ranking above Red Banner? ............................. Many thanks for your expertise in advance . Best regards Christian

"Concert Front" in the GPW Dear Paul, some postings ago in this thread you mentioned the "concert front". There had been also some (later) world famous pianists - i.e.: Gilels, Richter, etc. - doing their artistic duty at this "front". Shostakovich (HSL, several Stalin-Prizes, etc., etc.) composed his 7th symphony for Leningrad ... Do you have some further informations about the Soviet "concert front" in the GPW ? Does anyone have exact listings which awards the famous artists got in their life? Best regards Christian P.S.: I earn my bucks in the classical music business http://www.zulusrecords.com

Dear Andrei, that is an interesting aspect, because officially it was noted, that all Nevsky T 2 are mint-converted Nevsky T 1 and only the Nevsky T 3 had been a genuine screwback order. It seems, that there had been still some stocks somewhere of non-converted Nevsky T 1. Best regards Christian

Aleksandr Gavrilovic Ivanov, film director, LENFILM (1898 - 1984) Dear Dave, Ivanov was an important man in Soviet Cinema .... May I quote, what you wrote about the man & his award group at your own website: This is a beautiful and fascinating group to Aleksandr Gavrilovich Ivanov, famous actor, director and film producer for Lenfilm. He was born in 1898 in the village of Davydovo in the present Borovichi area, Novgorod region. He fought in the Civil War, from 1918 to 1920. Following his wartime duties, he attended and finished cinema school in Leningrad, and in 1925, began working at the Leningradkino (now Lenfilm) studio. He graduated from the State Research Institute of Art Study in 1935. His first production film was "The Moon is to the Left" (1929) which he followed by numerous other films, including: "The Moon is to the Left? (1929) ?The Transport of Fire? (1930) ?Yes, Captain!? (1930) ?On the Borderline? (1938) ?The Submarine T-9? (1943) ?The Sons? (1946) ?The Victorious Return? (1948) ?The Star? (1953) ?The Soldiers? (1957) In 1960-61, he produced the film trilogy ?Virgin Land Upheaved.? He also produced the film ?If your Comrade Calls You? (1963), and ?The First Russians? (1968). His Order of Lenin was awarded in February 1939, most likely for his production of the movie "On the Borderline". Interesting to note is the engraved screwnut on the back of the award, with his name and the date of the award! It is interesting to note that at the time of his awarding of the Lenin, only seven thousand had been awarded by that time. It was evidently quite a prestigious award for his work! Judging from his other awards, it appears that he earned his military awards by working closely with the military to produce pro-military movies. One can assume that his Red Star was awarded for the move "The Submarine T-9", his Red Banner of Labor for his two post-war movies (showing the 'triumphant' Soviet soldier, of course!) and his Red Banner quite possibly for his long standing association with the military. I found a book in the www about movie maker Ivanov: Peter BAGROV. Own scale of height. Alexander Ivanov: director and memoir. Biographical essay about Alexander Ivanov (1898?1984), who was one of the most interesting and less researched directors on Lenfilm. He shot Submarine Т-9 (1943), Star (1949), First Russians (1967). Alexander IVANOV. On the screen and behind it. ?Karelian-Finnish SSR?. ??Аnd here Josef Vissarionovich died!? From diaries of Ivanov. 1952?1955. Chapter from memoirs and fragment of Ivanov?s diaries are rare source about life and morality of Soviet filmmakers and supervisors in first part of 1950es. Ivanov's biography from the www: IVANOV Alexander Gavrilovich (1898-1984, Leningrad), film director and script writer; People?s Artist of the USSR in 1964, Honoured Worker of Arts of the Latvian Soviet Socialist Republic in 1947. He completed cinema courses at Kino-Sever Film Studio in 1925 and started working at Lenfilm Studio in the same year. He completed postgraduate studies at the Leningrad Branch of the Academy of Art Studies in 1935. He directed 17 films. Developed the genre of war in 1930-50, he produced On the Border, T-9 Submarine, and Sons. Among his major films were Star of 1953 and Soldiers of 1957, the latter awarded a prize at the First All-Union Film Festival in Moscow in 1958. He produced a three-part screen version of M. A. Sholokhov?s Virgin Soil Upturned. He was the director at the Second Creative Association of Lenfilm in 1967. He wrote a book, Half a Century in Cinema, published in Leningrad in 1973. Buried at Serafimovskoe Cemetery. Reference: Муратов Л. Г. Александр Иванов. Л., 1968. I. V. Sepman. Maybe he had a officers uniform - somewhere - during the GPW ... He got his (military) ORB at his 70th birthday!!!! Best regards Christian

Dear Dave, dear Ed, many thanks for your valueable contributions to that topic . It is very interesting from the historical and phaleristical viewpoint, that the tradition to confer civil awards to officers broke after the GPW. Dave, what about a (theoretical) case of an officer, who got in 1937 an RBL as an manager of a factory and had been been an officer during the GPW (receiving some military awards). How detailed is his pre-war RBL mentioned in the archives? Many thanks for sharing the highly interesting group of film producer Ivanov with us . If Ivanov had been active as a movie maker in the GPW - what I am sure, due to his (old) screwback Lenin -, than he wore during the GPW a uniform - something between a Lt. and a Maj. - like all the other writers, journalists, photographers and movie makers. Then he was member of the Red Army. The Red Star is an award all the propaganda people got after the GPW. Maybe he got the ORB for filming a great action under dangerous circumstances. Maybe he got the Lenin for a movie just before the war and the RBL T 3 for another movie just after the war. What is exactly written at the stamp on the photograph - is it of an war commissariat? Ed, till - I guess - 1947 it was possible for non-military people to receive OGPW 1cl & 2cl and - as Dave pointed out - BoH had been rather frequently confered to officers. Achievements in economy were at least as important, than military achievments. The fact is, that the Soviet Union won the GPW due to their superiority in economy, production and quality of weapons (tanks, airplanes, rifles, etc.). Soviet economy was definitly superior to the German economy during WW II, with their shortcomings in organization and product design. Best regards Christian

Civil Awards - possibility of research? Gentlemen, I started a new thread about the possibility of research concerning civil awards, if the very confered to a soldier before or during his active military career: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtop...st&p=120671 Best regards Christian Zulus

Gentlemen, if a soldier of the GPW received a civil order - i.e.: Lenin, Red Banner of Labour (RBL), Order of the Badge of Honour, etc. - are they still unresearchable? Or - are the open for research, because they are listed in the military archieves? Anybody, who fought in the lines of the Red Army should have left traces in the Soviet Military Archives - also with their civil awards, if they are listed? So there might be the possibility to research (up to a certain extend) civil orders and medals, if they were confered before or during the military career of the recipient . In my modest collection I have an obvious reissue RBL T 3 / Var. 1 with the s/n. 6.825 - similar to Igor's http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=13728 , but in better condition. It should be a reissue of a screwback RBL T 2 / Var. 1 or Var. 2 (in my collection is a RBL T 2 / Var. 1 with the s/n. 8.660). There might be the probability, that the RBL T 3 / Var. 1 is a "Victory-Parade" reissue . My question: Would it make sense, that I invest money into the research of my reissue RBL s/n. 6.825? Gentlemen, many thanks for your expertise in advance . Best regards Christian Zulus