Pilot badge

[Sal Williams]

Looks bad right? Looking for you Stogie!!!

[Sal Williams]

the reverse. Lemme know whatcha think please.

Thanks, Sal

[Sal Williams]

and mm.

[Daniel Murphy]

Sal,

A Hollow WW1 Bavarian by Poellath should have a "crown well" like this one. This one is mine.

Edited August 5, 2006 by Daniel Murphy

[Willi]

Sal,

A WW1 Bavarian should have a "crown well" like this one. This one is mine.

I am sorry, this is not true. There are many variations of this badge and also of the crown!

[Daniel Murphy]

I am sorry, this is not true. There are many variations of this badge and also of the crown!

I am aware there are many variations. Some may not however be real. Could you please elaborate on What you consider real and why. To my understanding the same style back plate on this has been used on a number of reproduced Juncker badges. I understand that some Meybauer and some * marked badges have this back, but I do not believe it correct for Juncker or Poellath badges.

Dan Murphy

[Willi]

I am aware there are many variations. Some may not however be real. Could you please elaborate on What you consider real and why. To my understanding the same style back plate on this has been used on a number of reproduced Juncker badges. I understand that some Meybauer and some * marked badges have this back, but I do not believe it correct for Juncker or Poellath badges.

Dan Murphy

Even on old Poellath items one can find different backplates -plain as well as the one shown in the pictures. Also the crowns are different, the spelling of the name Poellath, the given name can be Karl or Carl. Poellath used different silver marks, pins and materials (brass, silver). I know there is a lot of well made fakes on the market. I have bought a lot of pieces from the family over 2 decades and I saw all these variations.

[Stogieman]

Gentlemen, Willi is correct on this issue. It is not quite so simple as the shape of the well for the hinge. There are many other factors to be considered when dealing with Bavarian Aviation badges. Yes, I know that Robert Pandis rejects all badges with this crown well.... but it wasn't that many years ago that he also accepted Juncker "crown" badges as original. There are many points to be considered.....

[Willi]

Gentlemen, Willi is correct on this issue. It is not quite so simple as the shape of the well for the hinge. There are many other factors to be considered when dealing with Bavarian Aviation badges. Yes, I know that Robert Pandis rejects all badges with this crown well.... but it wasn't that many years ago that he also accepted Juncker "crown" badges as original. There are many points to be considered.....

You are abolutely right, I would say, if you have 20 Poellath badges in your hand, they are all different, which does not make it easier to detect fakes. I do not know why Poellath made the badges in such many variations, for example maker marks, pins, crowns, backplates etc. I live quite near to the town where the Poellath factory is still in bussines, unfortunately there is no more records or information available.

[Sal Williams]

You are abolutely right, I would say, if you have 20 Poellath badges in your hand, they are all different, which does not make it easier to detect fakes. I do not know why Poellath made the badges in such many variations, for example maker marks, pins, crowns, backplates etc. I live quite near to the town where the Poellath factory is still in bussines, unfortunately there is no more records or information available.

That on is on ebay gents so if any of you are sure of it feel free.

It scares me too much , because I don't know enough about these:P

Thanks for all your replies!

[dond]

Sal, let us know what it goes for.

[Daniel Murphy]

I am aware of the different materials, different style of back and different spelling of the name. Since the one shown by Sal was marked Poellath (or Pollath with an umlaut) I was referring to badges by that maker. Perhaps I was not clear on that point and should have worded it better. I also know other makers used a cut out crown. Of course there were also cliche badges (hollow without a back plate). Is there evidence now that Poellath used this shallow rounded crown well? My understanding was that a Poellath front badge die had "gotten away" from the factory and the fakers used an incorrect die to form the backs. Since it appears that the same die shows up on the back of Juncker fakes and these Poellath badges, my understanding is they were all fakes.

Here is a photo showing the same dies were used to make the backs on "supposed" Poellath and Juncker made badges. Apparently there was enough material around the edges that it could be cut to fit either one. Notice the flaw in the die (in the box) on one of each example. If this back on a "Juncker" is a fake, then it would stand to reason to be a fake on a Poellath as well. Or am I mistaken? The badge Sal posted also has this flaw although it is harder to see in that photo.

Dan Murphy

Edited August 5, 2006 by Daniel Murphy

[jaba1914]

Look vary good. Here my Bavarian Pilot Badge looks like your.