Marshal P?tain

[Alexandre]

Hello Gentlemen,

Im looking for decorations of Marshal P?tain

Thx in advance

Regards

Alexandre

[PKeating]

Three types of Vichy Croix de Guerre: on the right, the classic 1939-1940 cross with the green and black Etat Fran?ais ribbon, as issued to veterans who had won the Croix de Guerre in the 1939-1940 War and who remained or re-enlisted in the French armed forces loyal to P?tain's government. On the left, the same decoration but with the extremely rarely seen blue and black variant ribbon which was quickly superceded by the black and green scheme. In the middle is one of the two 'true' Vichy/P?tainist Croix de Guerre, the other being the LVF cross. This type was instituted in March 1944 and bears the P?tainist "Etat Fran?ais" medallion instead of the Republican version normally seen on Croix de Guerre. The reverse bears the date "1944". Only members of the Premier R?giment de France and P?tain's Bodyguard Detachment were eligible for this award and less than two-hundred are believed to have been awarded before the collapse of the Vichy state. Awards were for valour and distinguished service in combat against FFI and FTP partisans and the SAS and OSS units that served with them in the lead-up to and aftermath of the invasions of Normandy and Provence.

PK

[PKeating]

A scarce Vichy-issue Croix du Combattant with the Vichy-style ribbon and the dates 1939-1940 on the reverse. Like the 1939-1940 Croix de Guerre above, this was issued to veterans in 1941 in exchange for their Republican versions.

[PKeating]

Obverse.

(Sorry about the non-appearance of the other photo. It's really hard to get the images under the KB limit on a Macintosh!)

[PKeating]

It just won't load into that post. Here it is, I hope. Refer to the post above for an explanation.

[Alexandre]

Hello PKeating,

Thx for the infos and pictures.

Dou you have the decorations of WW1 of P?tain ?

Thx in advance

Regards

Adalberto

[Hauptmann]

Hello Gentlemen,

Im looking for decorations of Marshal P?tain

Thx in advance

Regards

Alexandre

Hi Alexandre,

Had some time and been searching on the web... not with a lot of luck I'm afraid. I did find one interesting bit of information though. When the Marshal died on July 23 he was dressed in his Marshal's uniform with only one decoration... the Military Medal.

Here is the article the information was found in and it is a fascinating read:

http://www.marechal-petain.com/versionangl.../prisonnier.htm

Just found another bit of info:

"Marshal P?tain presents himself before the Court wearing a uniform having as its only decoration, the Military Medal given to Generals having commanded on the front against the enemy."

This from:

http://www.marechal-petain.com/versionanglaise/proces.htm

I'll try and keep looking for a bit but hope one of the other members may be able to help on this one.

Just out of curiosity, are you writing a book or just finding out all this info for your own personal interest?

Best of luck!

Dan

Edited September 11, 2006 by Hauptman

[PKeating]

Ah, I see. You were asking about the awards P?tain actually held. He was a Commander of the L?gion d'Honneur and held other orders and decorations but I suppose he was stripped of those after WW2.

PK

[Alexandre]

Hello Guys,

Im working in a research about the Fieldmarshals of countrys who fighted or stay in activ list of Army in WW2. That?s the reason of my questions.

Regards

Alexandre

[Hauptmann]

Hello Guys,

Im working in a research about the Fieldmarshals of countrys who fighted or stay in activ list of Army in WW2. That?s the reason of my questions.

Regards

Alexandre

Hi Alexandre,

So, what is the project for? School... or a book or what? Sounds very interesting. Just by my searching last night I can tell it's extremely difficult to find the answers to such simple questions as what such and such a famous individual was awarded throughout his (or her) career.

I for one wish you the best of luck on your project.

Dan

[PKeating]

Philippe P?tain was made a Commandeur de la L?gion d'Honneur on 10.5.1915. This is the class worn around the neck. He also held the M?daille Militaire. He would have received, doubtless, service medals with clasps for any overseas service prior to 1914 but I cannot find any reference to colonial service. P?tain appears to have been the consummate staff officer whose career from 1878 to 1914 appears to have been rather uneventful and boring.

Here's a resum? I found on the internet:

1878-1883 Sous-lieutenant - 1? affectation au 24?BCP de Villefranche

12/12/1883-1890 Lieutenant - 1? affectation au 3? bataillon de chasseurs de Besan?on

novembre 1888 - entr?e ? l'?cole de guerre 14? promotion

1890 Capitaine ? la sortie de l'?cole - affect? ? l'?tat-major du 15? CA ? Marseille.

1892 - affect? au 29?BCP ? Vincennes

1893 - ?tat-major du gouverneur militaire de Paris

12/07/1900 Commandant - affect? ? l'?cole de tir de Ch?lons.

d?but 1901 - affect? au 5? RI ? la caserne de La Tour Maubourg ? Paris

?t? 1901 - professeur-adjoint ? l'?cole sup?rieure de guerre

?t? 1903 - chef de bataillon au 104?RI

?t? 1904 - 1907 - professeur ? l'?cole de guerre

?t? 1907 Lieutenant-colonel commandant le 118? RI ? Quimper

1908-26/06/1911 - titulaire de la chaire de tactique de l'infanterie ? l'?cole de guerre

31/12/1910 Colonel

26/06/1911- commandant le 33?RI ? Arras

1912 professeur de tactique g?n?rale ? l' ?cole de cavalerie de Saumur

1914 commandant par int?rim de la 4? brigade ? Saint-Omer

24/07/1914 - d?cision de prendre sa retraite

Ao?t 1914 - Commandant la 4? brigade du 1?CA.

27/08/1914 G?n?ral de brigade

02/091914 - Commandant la 6?DI

14/09/1914 G?n?ral de division. C'?tait alors le plus haut grade.

20/10/1914 - Commandant le 33?CA

10/05/1915 - Commandeur de la L?gion d'Honneur

21/06/1915 - Commandant de la II?arm?e

25/02/1916 - la II? arm?e est envoy?e ? Verdun

02/05/1916 - Commandant du groupe d'arm?es centre ? Bar-le-Duc

27/04/1917 - Chef d'?tat-major g?n?ral, poste cr?? pour lui

15/05/1917 - G?n?ral en chef des arm?es fran?aises

19/11/1918 Mar?chal de France

For the First World War, he would presumably have received the Commemorative Medal, the Victory Medal and probably the Combattant's Cross. He received the Distinguished Service Medal (Army) - pictured above - from the United States in 1918 for his leadership. The British probably gave him something too. The Russians might have decorated him before the Revolution for Verdun: many soldiers of the Western Allies received Russian decorations for distinguished service on the Western Front.

On 305.1949, the following article appeared in TIME magazine under the title Hollow Men:

The last and heaviest burden in the destiny of Henri Philippe Petain has been a seemingly interminable life. The officer who waited 44 years to become a major, 62 years to be Marshal of France, 84 years to be chief of the French state, was condemned as a traitor at 89. Today, in his fortress cell at Ile d'Yeu, he waits for the end.

Last week, in Paris, a greying cavalry officer, the Marquis Andre de Belleval, fleetingly rustled the tatters of the once great legend of Petain. He and some 500 other sympathizers of the old man attended a public auction of Petain's books and household effects (no ribbons, no medals), which the government had confiscated after his trial in 1945. At first there was icy silence. Then the Marquis mounted a chair and, waving his cane, he demanded that the sale end at once.

Amid shouts of "Vive Petain/" from the audience, Belleval denounced the proceedings as a "dishonor to France," proposed a token bid of one franc for each item on sale, so that the objects might be returned to Petain. The offer was turned down. The indignant audience burst into the Marseillaise. Fifty policemen finally cleared the hall. Once more the Marshal's belongings would gather dust. The old man would scarcely have found use for them, anyway.

P?tain is honoured in the room dedicated to the Marshalls of France at the Les Invalides museum but his career is described only up to 1939. While his intentions in signing the Armistice with Germany were honourable, the old man was surrounded by some rather unpleasant ultra-rightists who appealed to his bad side. The "Hero of Verdun" was also the hardline martinet whose Romanesque decimation of several mutinous French units during the War of 1914-1918 was referenced in Stanley Kubrick's Paths of Glory. P?tain was a product of his age and his generation, an arch-conservative Catholic. This informed his pleasure, for example, in passing anti-Jewish legislation. His generation had never forgiven the Dreyfuss Affair.

And yet, for all that, he did his best for France under the circumstances in which he found himself in 1940. The Vichy government was the legal authority in France, although many French people are in denial about this. P?tain dreamt of the departure of the German armies in France and it was his stolid attempts to rebuild the French Army - I am not referring to the LVF or the Charlemagne Division here - and a speech he made when conferring the regimental standard on the newly-formed 1? R?giment de France in 1942 that infuriated Hitler and prompted the occupation of Vichy France by German forces in July 1942.

PK

[Chris Boonzaier]

""The "Hero of Verdun" was also the hardline martinet whose Romanesque decimation of several mutinous French units during the War of 1914-1918 was referenced in Stanley Kubrick's Paths of Glory. P?tain was a product of his age and his generation, an arch-conservative Catholic. This informed his pleasure, for example, in passing anti-Jewish legislation. His generation had never forgiven the Dreyfuss Affair.""

If I remember correctly Petain was not involved in the executions, they were before he took over... his "soft touch" and bettering of the conditions of the men helped get the army into shape again?

[PKeating]

True, Chris, he did improve the lot of the common soldier after the 1917 mutiny but he also decimated the ranks of units involved. The 1917 Mutiny was sparked by the Nivelle Offensive, named after General Nivelle, who was P?tain's commander at the time. The offensive is more commonly known by the reference le Chemin des Dames. The Mutiny eventually affected 50% of the French Army and the High Command gave P?tain a free hand to resolve it.

General Nivelle had spoken publicly of his battle plan for the new offensive and the Germans were consequently waiting for it when the poilus climbed form their trenches on 16.4.1917. The French suffered 100,000 casualties in less than twenty-four hours.

Reports of the senseless slaughter spread throughout the army and soldiers began to refuse to obey their officers. This soon turned to outright violence. On 28.4.1917, a battalion of the 28th Infantry Regiment mutinied, refusing to enter the front line. After ringleaders were shot and mutineers imprisoned for long terms with hard labour, the battalion went into battle and was almost annihilated. Following this, other units started refusing to fight. One of the things that particularly spooked the High Command was the involvement of loyal veterans in the mutiny. The units for the most part remained at their posts, working-to-rule in the defensive r?le, but they refused to fight. All-in-all, some 40,000 soldiers are estimated to have mutinied.

At this point, the High Command ordered the "Hero of Verdun" to put down the mutiny and gave him absolute carte blanche. P?tain addressed the problem with more intelligence and foresight than some of his fellow generals might have deployed. Whilst being seen to be harsh with "ringleaders" - he had most of them shot - and whilst refusing to agree publicly to the demands of the mutineers, P?tain certainly did improve conditions for the common soldiery. He also declared large-scale, continual frontal infantry assaults obsolete, stipulating that assaults and offensives must in the future be supported by tanks and other forms of support.

This reassured the soldiers of what was, essentially, a citizen's army comprising conscripts who objected to the feudal attitudes of an officer class totally out of touch with the modern world. However, make no mistake: Philippe P?tain put down that mutiny with ferocity even though he employed the carrot-and-stick stategy with the men who were not shot or jailed.

PK

Edited September 12, 2006 by PKeating

[Chris Boonzaier]

I am sure you will appretiate the rarity of this signature....

Not many folks asking him for one after 17...

[PKeating]

Now, that is indeed a rare thing. I think Nivelle was to somr extent scapegoated, don't you? Oh sure, he gave the order that unleashed the hellish carnage of the Chemin des Dames but he was not extraordinary given the attitudes of the officer class of his generation.

P

[Alexandre]

Hello Guys,

Thx a lot for the infos.

Really it is hard to find informations on P?tain

Answering the question of Dan, I intend to write a book in Portuguese on all the 5 Stars Officers (Marshals, Generals and Admirals) of the Nations who fought in the WW2.

I am of use now to ask for a help, am not receiving notifications of retorts of my posts. I did not receive this of the P?tain. Only I knew because I entered straightly to see if they had updating. Other posts also have the same problem.

I send a PM for the Chairman, but apparently he also did not receive the message since I did not receive notification or answer.

What?s can be happening ????

BTW - My profile is checked to receive emails notifications

Thx in advance

Alexandre

Edited September 13, 2006 by Alexandre

[g_deploige]

the Croix de Guerre TOE of Mar?chal P?tain is in auction by Hermann-Historica in Munich

Click here to see the piece

http://www.hermann-historica.de

[g_deploige]

Dear Alexander

If you want to know the list of decorations given to general P?tin you can asked it to the grand Chancelery of the L?gion d'honneur http://www.legiondhonneur.fr

or le Service Historique de la D?fence http://www.servicehistorique.sga.defense.gouv.fr/

Guy

[PKeating]

I woud want to examine the bronze plaque fitted into that case very, very closely before thinking about making a bid of more than ?4.500,00 for a decoration said to have been given to P?tain by his staff in 1926.

PK

[Chris Boonzaier]

I woud want to examine the bronze plaque fitted into that case very, very closely before thinking about making a bid of more than ?4.500,00 for a decoration said to have been given to P?tain by his staff in 1926.

PK

even more closely than very, very...

[PKeating]

Or maybe not at all... In the same league, I think, as G?ring's onyx-centered Grand Crosses of the Iron Cross 1939 in their silver box?

PK

[John5813]

Hope this helps in putting the list of Petain's awards together:

France:

Legion d'Honneur Grand Croix

Medaille Militaire

Croix de Guerre

Great Britain:

Order of the Bath Military Division Knight Grand Cross

Roumania:

Order of Michael the Brave 1st Class

Serbia:

Order of the Star of Karageorge Grand Cross with swords

United States:

Distinguished Service Medal Army

John

[Alexandre]

Hello John,

Great infos, thx a lot.

Regards

Alexandre