Soviet Order of the Red Banner T2V2

[Gerd Becker]

Here is the second new important addition to my collection, a piece, i wanted since i started with Soviet Collecting. Its a Screwback Red Banner with Serial Number 72925, awarded probably around July 1943. It has some enamel restauration, but its really hard to get one without enamel damage.

I am going to let this one research.

best,

Gerd

Edited June 9, 2005 by Gerd

[Guest Rick Research]

These are always good research, because the early war awards are usually MORE imporatant than they became later-- a 1942 Red Star "worth" a 1944-45 Red Banner, an early Red Banner "worth" what Lenins were given out for by war's end, and so on. They were stingy with decorations before victory became certain. I've read early Red Star citations that "should" have been a Lenin, by later standards.

I hope this one turns out to be really exciting when the results come in!!!

[Gerd Becker]

Well i have already informed my researcher, but it will take a few months though. I also get a citation for a nice early Red-Star (you know, the one from Tom) and i am really really curious, what these were awared for and tho whom. Can?t await it.

Gerd

[Guest Rick Research]

Here is mine. This was awarded to an infantry close support artillery Captain-- I'll make a thread sometime with all the research and citation, just showing this to compare with Gerd's

[Gerd Becker]

Very nice. Its still in great condition. These have real silver srews, right?

Gerd

[Guest Rick Research]

Yes, and the screw plates. I will go post mine in a new thread with "typical research" so when you get yours back, you can add it here.

[Alfred]

Hello to the forum members,

here is my red banner. Typ 1 Variation 3. A piece with heavy wearing traces.

Nearly the complete enamel is replaced.

best regards

Andreas

Edited June 16, 2005 by Alfred

[Alfred]

and here is the backside.

[Gerd Becker]

Hello Andreas,

nice to see you here.

That is a nice piece with a lot of character. Without a doubt proudly worn from his owner. It was great to see it in person.

all the best,

Gerd

[Guest Rick Research]

But it still has the screwback! A late 1939 or early 1940 award, could be for Khalkin Gol or maybe Finland. :food-smiley-004:

[Alfred]

Hello,

another red banner screwback.

Enjoy seeing.

best regards

Andreas

[Alfred]

and the backside

[Guest Rick Research]

Shouldn't a 1942 serial number have "Monetny Dvor" and not "Mondvor?"

This looks like a perfect match to the Mondvor type, but that is a later serial number!!!

I am confuuuuuuuuused!!!!

[Alfred]

Hello Rick,

I have looked on the mondvor side. They list for these variation T2 V2 SubVar2

the s/n 481 minimal and maximal 1185 with Mondvor stamp.

Разновидность 2. Клеймо расположено выше серийного номера. Минимальный известный номер ордена ? 481, максимальный ? 1185.

Alexei is nearly sure that the order is okay.

In Paul Mc Daniels book is a 2nd award screwback with s/n 1267 with Monetny Dvor stamp. Maybe it is just the boarder line.

By the way, mondvor says, that the lowest observed serial number for a monetny dvor stamped piece is 1267.

I had the purpose to send the order for authentification to Paul, but he is till January in Afganistan.

best regards

Andreas

Edited July 14, 2005 by Alfred

[Guest Rick Research]

Ah! I am still relying on McDaniel's and Schmitt's 1997 book for "first and last numbers." And here we are in a hobby with NEW information and NEW documentation coming out every day!

Ask Gerd who does his research--

we can't WAIT until next year!

[Gerd Becker]

Research is complete for the ORB, which started this thread. Please move to the proper section.

Hey Rick, he is a Raymond Burr lookalike :

Thanks

Gerd

Edited September 13, 2005 by Gerd Becker

[Wild Card]

Hi -

If it is of any help, I have a red Banner #6298 which was awarded on 7 April 1940 for action in the Finnish War, Then I jump to #16587 which was awarded on 18 April 1942 for action at Pogost Mikhaylovsky.

The second one is particularly interesting in that it was awarded to a Senior Quartermaster Officer for leading his unit & equipment through German lines after being surrounded in the area of Kudever. Also his unit eliminated a company of enemy & captured 7.

I have always found these early pieces to be especially appealing; and Rick?s observation ?...the early war awards are usually MORE important than they became later-- a 1942 Red Star "worth" a 1944-45 Red Banner, an early Red Banner "worth" what Lenins were given out for by war's end? is so true. Taking that position one step further, imagine the results had Suvorov, Nevsky, Glory, et al. been existent from the beginning of the war.

Thank you all for sharing (a great thread!) and best wishes,

Wild Card

[Wild Card]

Here is the second new important addition to my collection, a piece, i wanted since i started with Soviet Collecting. Its a Screwback Red Banner with Serial Number 72925, awarded probably around July 1943. It has some enamel restauration, but its really hard to get one without enamel damage.

I am going to let this one research.

best,

Gerd

←

Hi Gerd -

To help you zero in on an award date, I have a Red Banner #69910 awarded on 5 June 1943 and another, #87522, awarded on 6 Nov., ?43; so, going with those numbers and award dates, I would say that your estimate of July 1943 is pretty accurate.

I wish that I had something that could narrow things down better; but it?s a start.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[Guest Rick Research]

Actually Gerd just got his research on this Order in yesterday, translated by me:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2405

and it was a very LATE one! A good example of how we can't be sure until the research actually gets done.

[Chris S]

Here's a complete Red Banner group I picked up 5 years ago...

[Chris S]

The back.........

[Chris S]

The Doc....with an "A" so I guess he was an officer.

Chris

[Chris S]

Awarded to Dyaghenko Pavel Fomich

[Gerd Becker]

Very nice, Chris

[Guest Rick Research]

You have GOT to get some research done!