3 place ribbon bar

[MattGibbs]

[attachmentid=54652]Hello folks

saw this device at a fair and made a chance purchase. The back is a nice period but cheaply plated bar, sadly the pin is rusted and the plating is lifting slightly in a couple of places. Fronts nicely line up and looks untampered with.

regards

Matt Gibbs

[stevo4361]

Hi Matt,

Looks like 2 long service eagles and a customs service device (Zollgrenzschutz-Ehrenzeichen).

Kind Regards,

Steve

Edited September 24, 2006 by stevo4361

[MattGibbs]

Ahh Customs! Of course, I didn't think to look at full sized medals. Is that 20 yrs or something? Shall have to check it out and add it up.

Many thanks

Matt Gibbs

[stevo4361]

Hey Matt,

I'm not positive, but I think that the Customs device on a ribbon bar is a rare bird, congrats! As for being award criteria, I'm not sure if there was a service time requirement or not.

Kind Regards,

Steve

[Guest Rick Research]

Yup, Wehrmacht 12 and 4 and then into the Zoll or Zollgrenzschutz, with that earned by uniformed personnel after 4 years.

Career NCOs (12 year enlistments) were entitled to a civil service job at the end of that time and those not cajoled into staying on went into this, or the railways, or civic government or the like.

This bar is datable. The Wehrmacht awards were first awarded on 1 October 1936 and were suspended in September 1939 "for the duration." I have never heard of anybody BEING discharged at "12 years up" in September/October 1939, so this guy got out of the army or navy in September of 1937 or September of 1938. Add 4 years for the Zoll and you've got fall of 1941 or 1942.

Very nice bar and indeed hard to find.

[stevo4361]

Great watching your work Rick, amazing!

Thanks for the info on the Zollgrenschutz as well, couldn't remember the time requirement!

Kind Regards,

Steve

[Hauptmann]

Hi Matt,

Don't know if this helps but here's an earlier post from 2005 on one of these:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=1328&hl=

Dan

[MattGibbs]

You all know that I am ever so grateful for the freely shared info, don'tcha..? Many thanks. Always great tidbits of info to learn. Nice to pin down those dates, I love it when that kind of info is available, logical and simple. Something just said buy me, and as it was not expensive I thought, hey why not.

Many thanks

Matt Gibbs

[Paul R]

Would it be possible for a person with so much government service time to have NO other awards?

It seems that at least some military and Custom's service were performed in the 1933-45 time period?

[webr55]

Would it be possible for a person with so much government service time to have NO other awards?

It seems that at least some military and Custom's service were performed in the 1933-45 time period?

There are several possibilities. The most probable one is that he had only a KVK2 and wore it from his buttonhole. He could even have worn several from the buttonhole, like KVK2 and East Front Medal.

Chris

[Paul R]

Thanks for reminding me!

[MattGibbs]

I did kind of wonder but have noted a 4 bar which included these 3 and 1 other. Nice to be reminded of others that were button worn awards and other membership badges etc. The guys uniform would indeed not look bare if he had this, the KVKII button, NSDAP membership badge, HJ golden honour badge etc

Regards

Matt Gibbs

[Guest Rick Research]

You've got to remember that as a BORDER functionary, by 1942 there weren't that many civilian borders left around Germany.

Switzerland, Vichy France, Italy, Croatia, Hungary, Denmark and the Baltic ports handling trade with Sweden, international airports for flights from Spain and so on.

Basically, the other borders had been completely militarized, with the exception of areas where "normal" civilian pre-war commerce was going on. If there wasn't a "state" on the other side any more, then there wasn't a border either.

I've seen and have many a group where home front German military personnel hadn't so much as a KVK2X into 1943. I've got a group to a very senior civil servant who got zip zero nada nichevo nichts until 1944.

So a Border Guard could well have ended the war with nothing.

Though as I recall seeing, by 1944/45 Zoll personnel on the Italian/Croat frontiers had been pressed into anti-partisan formations in Yugoslavia.

[MattGibbs]

Thanks a lot for that Rick, of course I was forgetting that border control from the frontiers of "greater" germany would probably have met with little work on many of the areas they bordered with!

I was still very happy to get this little 3 ribbon bar for a reasonable ?24. I love some of our small local shows, you never know whats going to pop out of a case. I think this same guy had a nice little Polizei mini on a 2 ribbon bar, but I forgot about it.

No RAD minis though

Regards

Matt Gibbs