My New WW2 Commonwealth Stars

[Avitas]

Hello Gents,

I recently picked up some nice WW2 campaign stars to add to my collection of the Italy (x2), France-Germany, 39-45 and Afrika stars I posted in my 8th Army medal set previously. I will post my new stars here from now on. First up is a very nice condition Burma Star with full length original ribbon. This example has kept in great shape and is a fine example of an often unmentioned battle in World War 2.

Cheers,

Pat

[Avitas]

Here is the reverse of the Burma Star...

[Avitas]

Finally for the Burma Campaign Star, a close-up of the details. The edges are the proper die-struck method with lines unlike the repros or "re-strikes" which have smooth edges. Any comments or further info on these stars are welcome also!

Cheers,

Pat

[Ed_Haynes]

All unnamed?

[Avitas]

The second new star I picked up was this Atlantic Star, which at one time was part of a mounted set as far as I can gather as it is cut on the back of the ribbon and has glue across it as well, a sure sign of being mounted with other medals. It is a shame it has been separated from its brothers, but alas this happens sometimes. At least the ribbon is original, and the star itself appears to have seen some time at sea as it has more oxidation and some serious wear. Any ideas on its wear at sea or any other comments are great!

Cheers,

Pat

Ed,

On the Burma Star, I do not see any names but it does appear to have had the "Pacific" clasp at one point as there are a couple holes in the ribbon at the right places. All of my Canadian issue ww2 Campaign stars are unnmamed.

Edited September 30, 2006 by Avitas

[Avitas]

Reverse of the Atlantic Star...on second thought the ribbon probably wasn't cut, but just the glue was worn out or it was pulled off of the mount at that point.

Cheers,

Pat

Edited September 30, 2006 by Avitas

[Avitas]

Lastly for today, the details of this Atlantic Star, which has seen better days. Any comments are welcome on this and the Burma star.

Thanks,

Pat

[Ed_Haynes]

Ed,

On the Burma Star, I do not see any names but it does appear to have had the "Pacific" clasp at one point as there are a couple holes in the ribbon at the right places. All of my Canadian issue ww2 Campaign stars are unnmamed.

Thanks, Pat. Just that I'm more used to Indian stars, most of which are named (and they present more research interest). A shame the others didn't name theirs (only India, Australia, South Africa, and New Zealand named and of their WWII medals). That silly desire to get them issued quickly (and not, as some have said, a concern of cost.) Still, interesting stuff. Congratulations!! Ed

[Laurence Strong]

Hi Pat

Nice Stars welcome to another slippery slope, I just started with the Commonwealth medals also

@ Ed

Did the Indians name all off their WW2 stars and medals? Would a person change them after the Independence of Pakistan if he was a Pakistani?

[Ed_Haynes]

Did the Indians name all off their WW2 stars and medals? Would a person change them after the Independence of Pakistan if he was a Pakistani?

Sorry for getting this . . . .

We need to distinguish three populations of pre-1947 "Indian Army":

1- Those who went to India (including the Gorkha regiments and Gorkha personnel who stayed in the Indian Amry) received their medals mostly but not entirely named (maybe 85%?) about 1952-55 (I am trying to refine this chronology and the conditions for named/unnamed). An all-unnamed Indian group is rare (and usually has a tale behind it), while a 100%-named group is not common. See some of the groups I have posted. (These were made and named in the Calcutta mint.)

2- Those who went to Pakistan (many of the pre-1947 Muslims of the Indian Army) slavishly followed British policy and issued WWII medals unnamed. Hence, the massive number of poorly faked Pakistani WWII "groups" seen on the market. (Medals sent from the UK.)

3- Gorkhas that stayed in British service (Gora Gurkhas) received their medals from the British, all unnamed. (Medals from teh UK.)

Much more complex than this, but this is a "short version".

[Guest Darrell]

Nice Pat. Not to highjack your thread. But here is the full set:

a. The 1939-45 Star attributed to KIA relative.

b. ACE Star attributed to KIA Canadian Observer (part of larger grouping).

3. Africa Star stamped with recipients name.

[Laurence Strong]

@ Ed thanks for clarifying that for me

@Darrell

Way to go nice set Darrell

@Pat

Ok will let your thread get back on thread, Sorry about that

[Avitas]

No problem, the more background information the better

It is nice to see the full set, I am only missing two now and that "Air Crew Europe" clasp on the Atlantic Star. Then gentleman who had these two medals before I bought them from him also has the Burma Star with the "Pacific" clasp on it, which I will probably be acquiring at the end of October at the next show. I hope to have some more soon to show.

Cheers,

Pat

[notned]

Nice to see you are on this particular slippery slope there Pat! LOL

Ed, Sorry to be picky...but New Zealanders did not get their medals stamped with their names...a great pity that.. Australians, Indians, And south africans did so did the ( not 100% sure here) Rhodesians and Canadians.

Darrell!, nice to see the full set...i need the ACE myself.... have 7 so far...

Have the 1939-45, Burma, Africa( with 1st and 8th army bars),and the Italy Stars mounted in Groups all are attributed to South African, a NZer, and a British soldiers.

Have a group to the Englishman, missing the North Africa 1942-3 bar

Am hoping to get a Navy bar soon with a Pacific Star with Burma bar.

Laurence, i see you are too on this slippery slope...i find it really Interesting being able to research the soldiers life from having his name on the medals.

Cheers Gents,

Paul

Edited October 7, 2006 by notned

[Guest Darrell]

AS posted elsewhere, I got this South African grouping reseached. Like you say .. nice when the medals are all named. Makes things a tad easier.

[Guest Darrell]

Names:

[Guest Darrell]

Stars:

[Michael Johnson]

Sorry for getting this . . . .

We need to distinguish three populations of pre-1947 "Indian Army":

1- Those who went to India (including the Gorkha regiments and Gorkha personnel who stayed in the Indian Amry) received their medals mostly but not entirely named (maybe 85%?) about 1952-55 (I am trying to refine this chronology and the conditions for named/unnamed). An all-unnamed Indian group is rare (and usually has a tale behind it), while a 100%-named group is not common.

In the days when I collected to the Dogra Regiment, I never ran across a named WWII medal to them.

[Kev in Deva]

Hello Gents,

I recently picked up some nice WW2 campaign stars to add to my collection of the Italy (x2), France-Germany, 39-45 and Afrika stars I posted in my 8th Army medal set previously. I will post my new stars here from now on. First up is a very nice condition Burma Star with full length original ribbon. This example has kept in great shape and is a fine example of an often unmentioned battle in World War 2.

Cheers,

Pat

Hallo Pat, nice stars, but it must be clarified that BURMA was a Campaign not a battle

I had an relative, (my Mothers Uncle, on her Fathers side,) who was taken as P.O.W by the Japanese, and he survived the horrors of captivity to return back to the U.K., my Mum said he was yellow and skelatal, when he got back to Gotham in Nottinghamshire, and remained very bitter until he died about how the British public only talked about the War with Germany, as he said "we were the Forgotten Army". I remember meeting him once as a young boy, absolutely no ideas where his medals ended up.

Kevin in Deva.

[Ed_Haynes]

Sorry for the mis-statement on New Zealand medals. Always dangerous to work from memory

Let me dig out and post some named Dogra WWII medals for you, Michael. All I have in front of me on the desk just now is a very nice subadar's Videsh Seva for Bhutan, but that doesn't count.

[peter monahan]

NotNed said: "And south africans did so did the ( not 100% sure here) Rhodesians and Canadians."

I'm almost certain that Canadian Stars and medals were NOT named. If they are, i've been missing a bet all these years.

Peter

[Guest Darrell]

NotNed said: "And south africans did so did the ( not 100% sure here) Rhodesians and Canadians."

I'm almost certain that Canadian Stars and medals were NOT named. If they are, i've been missing a bet all these years.

Peter

The only Canadian Medals that were named (that I can recollect) were the 1939-45 War Medals by the Merchant Marine.

[Ed_Haynes]

That is my understanding too, Peter and Darrell. All I am sure about is India (post-1947 meaning), South Africa, and Australia. Can't say regarding Rhodesia. All I can speak about with any expertise is India (where I can give dates and percentages).

[Ed_Haynes]

In the days when I collected to the Dogra Regiment, I never ran across a named WWII medal to them.

Interesting point, Michael. And it has led me on rather of a chase, digging through heaps and boxes and uncatalogued ( ) goodies and even research notes.

And you are right, named Dogra medals seem to be uncommonly uncommon. Though, to be honest, I selectively "pick" States' Forces medals for WWII or VCO medals and may just have passed the poor little Dogras by.

The only one that came to light is a Pacific Star, named to "6310 NK. RAM SINGH, DOGRA R.". He is not shown in the POW rolls or in the CWGC records. He is, however, there in the GoI-published casualty rolls (Part B, Vol. I, p. 36, sl. 1364) as 6310 P/A/Nk. Ram Singh, 3/17th Dogras, "died", Malaya, 15 January 1942.

I have shown the named reverse of his star below.

I have lots of GSM (SE Asia) and post-1947 and ICSC and WWI and IGS '08 and '36 Dogra medals but strangely just the one WWII medal.

Checking my working research notes on a long-delayed project on the naming of WWII medals to Indians, I find few reports of named Dogra WWII gongs "in captivity" in known collections:

39-45 - 1

Pacific - 1 (mine!)

Burma - 1

Defence - 1

War - 2

As the wise old lady said, "curiouser and curiouser".

(PS- I have, by the way, everything WWII named to Indians except F&G [which I hope to correct real soon now!], Atlantic, and ACE -- all are believed to exist, though the last two will, understandably, be incredibly rare to Indians.)

Edited October 10, 2006 by Ed_Haynes

[peter monahan]

Ed said: "have, by the way, everything WWII named to Indians except F&G [which I hope to correct real soon now!], Atlantic, and ACE -- all are believed to exist, though the last two will, understandably, be incredibly rare to Indians."

Ok, I'll bite! I can almost see an Atlantic Star, if Indian merchjant marine types qualified in the way that (eventually) Cdn sailors did but I wouldn't think that "rare" would begin to cover an Air Crew Europe Star!

Would an Indian national serving in the RAF fit the bill or were there actually Indian crews in Indian units who made an "operational sortie" over occupied Europe? Enquiring minds want to know!

Peter