My Favorite Imperial Award!

[Sal Williams]

@ Don, I am still reeling with delight on this one! Thanks much!

@ Rick V. Thanks much too! Let me know when the package I sent gets there.

@ Bob you are a card!

@ Gerdy Werdy, you will see it in person on your next trip to CA. it is yor turn after all

@ Rick L. and Glenn, Thanks again sooooooooooooooo much for finding all that info for me, really great of you guys to do that! Do you know anyone with the regimentals where I might get a pic of Herr Westmark?

Best, Sal

And thanks to anmyone who I may have left out, I can't seem to review all the posts when replying

[Glenn J]

Sal,

I am revisiting this topic after having now found Herr Westmark's promotion dates to Oberleutenant and Hauptmann der Landwehr:

Oberleutnant d.L.: 21.12.09

Hauptmann d.L.: 22.3.14

Regards

Glenn

[Guest Brian von Etzel]

What a piece of luck finding the packet like that to place a history to it!

[Sal Williams]

Yowza Glenn!! how did you find that out? And how did you remember to even look for it????

Thanks soooo much! If anyone ever finds the regimental that might have his pic please contact me i would love to find out what he looked like.

One question guys, why do you suppose this never was put on a bar or somthing of the sort? Seems like he opened the package, wore it on his neck and then put it away forever?

[Mike Dwyer]

One question guys, why do you suppose this never was put on a bar or somthing of the sort? Seems like he opened the package, wore it on his neck and then put it away forever?

Sal,

I could be mistaken, but since this is a neck decoration, I don't believe it would ever have been put on a bar. Lower grades were put on a bar, but I believe the neck decorations only appear on the neck, nowhere else.

(Oops, sorry about that mistake, I thought the ribbon looked like the long neck ribbon, but now I see that it isn't!)

Edited June 6, 2006 by Mike Dwyer

[Guest Rick Research]

Sal's is a Knight 2nd with Oakleaves (BZ3bXmE) which WAS worn on a medal bar.

The guy just didn't wear his awards.

Why did people pay MONEY for a CASE for something as universal as a Hindenburg Cross-- instead of wearing it?

Why did people pay money for elaborate plushy cases to toss in their cufflink drawer with medals unmounted?

Why CASE things that weren't going to be worn--in a time and place where most "normal" people were wearing every single thing they were able to?

People are strange, that's why.

[Glenn J]

Sal,

although the Patent dates of Reserve and Landwehr officers are not published in the Prussian Army Lists, they are published in the Milit?r-Wochenblatt. The basic problem however is that these are very rare and difficult to obtain and even then, it would appear that the majority are then bound withount any name indices.

Luckily, living in Germany as I am, I am able to visit the libraries and archives where they have these things and do some serious photocopying. Then comes the indexing

There is an history of R.I.R 111. If I come across a copy I will certainly look to see if he is in there or if there is a photo.

Regards

Glenn

[Wild Card]

Hi Sal,

As I have stated somewhere before, IMO this is one of the most under appreciated Imperial German orders. Aside from it?s obvious beauty and complex construction which demands the best workmanship, it?s structure and history offer countless opportunities to the collector who chooses to concentrate on a particular order.

Being founded in 1809, through the 99 years during which it was awarded, style changes took place - i.e. pieces made in the 1830?s differ in appearance from those of post 1900; and then there are little nuances, such as the very rare oakleaves with the ?L? monogram on them and pieces ?with brilliants?. Again, the collar to this order is one of my favorites as being so delicate it demands, and so reflects, the before mentioned high level of workmanship which makes most others look downright clunky.

Sal, when it comes to playing favorites, you have certainly picked a winner that would be so chosen in most any collection. congratulations!

Wild Card

[Wild Card]

Gentlemen,

While we are on the subject of the OZL, there is a piece if information that I would like to pass on to all who might own, or someday own, a badge to this order. First, as I understand it, the inserts in the arms are, at least in the later pieces, made of glass. Behind the glass is a piece of ?foil? which is used to reflect the light.

Now, the important part - if any moisture should get between the glass and foil, it will discolor and the brilliance will be lost. I am sure that some members have seen pieces to which this has happened. So, should you ever be overcome by a compelling need to clean one of these badges, stay away from the water, dips and magic potions.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[Guest Rick Research]

Very good advice!!!

I have SEEN "forever afterwards" on a cleaned piece...

oh the HORRUH, the HORRUH!!!!...

and it does indeed RUIN the Order. That's why all the intricate cut out filigree on my BZ3bX is STAYING dull and gray

far better THAT than those limpid emeralds of reflecting as if they have cracked into dozens of fragments.

[Wild Card]

And few Imperial German decorations present a greater challenge to the miniature artist.

[Blitz]

You're in the dark side now sally and there is no turning back! I would show you my favourite pieces, but they are all cased up..

Edited June 5, 2006 by Blitz

[Sal Williams]

@ Antti, you crack me up sir!!!!

@Wildcard, thanks for the non cleaning advice, Rick warned me away from that the minute I got the piece love that miniature!!!

@Glenn, What can I say but thanks again! So I take it that when you made some copies and were going thru them you saw Westmarks name and remembered it? Boy I hope somebody bumps into the regimentals someday! That would be something else!

And thanks to all others for the nice comments as well!

[Blitz]

@ Antti, you crack me up sir!!!!

It's always a pleasure to please senior citizens.

[Sal Williams]

I am always amused by children

[Blitz]

Now now sally.. Don't laugh or your teeth might just fall of..

[Sal Williams]

Antti, don't eat so much sugar it always makes you so hyperactive! I think I must call your mother it seems its time for a diaper change

[Blitz]

Hmm.. ..Interesting. I didn't know that your Alzheimers was this far developed. Tell me, do you remember what decade you are living on?

[Sal Williams]

Its the 60's Dammit how far gone do you think I am you little hippie!!!?????

Edited June 5, 2006 by Sal Williams

[Blitz]

Far enough.

[JOCI]

Hello everyone.

I recently acquired a similar Zähringer lion paper bag, can anyone identify the army number on it? All I know is that the name of the person on the paper is Fritz Heydecke, and I'm guessing that the owner was a lieutenant, but I'm having trouble distinguishing the writing on the other lines of the paper.

If anyone can help me, I would appreciate it!

[landsknechte]

18 minutes ago, JOCI said:

Hello everyone.

I recently acquired a similar Zähringer lion paper bag, can anyone identify the army number on it? All I know is that the name of the person on the paper is Fritz Heydecke, and I'm guessing that the owner was a lieutenant, but I'm having trouble distinguishing the writing on the other lines of the paper.

If anyone can help me, I would appreciate it!

 

 

From what I've got:

Fritz Heydecke 

Leutnant d.R. in RIR 249 - award date 09.06.1915

[JOCI]

I thank you very much for your very quick reply! You are just too great !!!This is the BZ that I received at the same time, but I think the ribbon is a replica. Is the green part of the BZ just green glass?
I am very excited! I have some other questions for you! I would appreciate it if you could answer them!
1. Did you recognize the person as a lieutenant by the line above the name?
2. Where did you get the exact date of commissioning and can you tell me about his military career?
3. Was RIR 249 part of the Baden army and are there any records available?

[JOCI]

 

3 hours ago, landsknechte said:

 

From what I've got:

Fritz Heydecke 

Leutnant d.R. in RIR 249 - award date 09.06.1915

Sorry I'm not very good with these types of sites, so I'll reply to you again

 

I thank you very much for your very quick reply! You are just too great !!!This is the BZ that I received at the same time, but I think the ribbon is a replica. Is the green part of the BZ just green glass?
I am very excited! I have some other questions for you! I would appreciate it if you could answer them!
1. Did you recognize the person as a lieutenant by the line above the name?
2. Where did you get the exact date of commissioning and can you tell me about his military career?
3. Was RIR 249 part of the Baden army and are there any records available?

Edited yesterday at 11:22 by JOCI

[Stogieman]

Good Morning All! It’s nice to see this thread bumped up! JOCI, I’m pretty certain that a very long time ago I owned the exact BZL2mX and packet that you have shown here! Congratulations, as it’s a very special piece. Very hard to find with the packet. Makes one wonder about the war economy in Germany at the time that such a prestigious award was given out in a paper packet! Unfortunately, I’ve lost all my archives so I can’t confirm this thought, but the inscription is ringing a very loud bell in my head!