Boy Wonder of the SS

[Eric K.]

Hello

Heres a better shot of one of the pics I got last weekend,

J.Lingner,Limser,Linser,Linsner. Something like that, Its hard to tell with this writing!!

what do you guys think?

Thanks

Eric

[Guest Rick Research]

I think you need an Epson 2400 series scanner, or else home leave!

I find a Richard L?nser but he was a WW1 veteran and the rank/unit doesn't seem to match.

No date as a clue? I have 1935, 1938, and the upper ranks 1944, along with Einsatzgruppen and concentration camp officers, no luck there.

[Eric K.]

I really do need a scanner!!!!

How much is Epson paying you these days anyways

Thanks!

Eric.

[Guest Rick Research]

Nada, alas.

Show us the FACE if there is no date.

I am having a tough time trying to read the ink against the photo contrast.

Could also be "J. Bucher."

Josef Bucher, born 20 November 1917 Bayrischzell graduated from SS-Junkerschule Braunschweig in 1935 (!!!) and was commissioned as

SS Untersturmf?hrer 20 April 1936 (18 1/2!!!)

In 1938 attached to SD-Hauptamt, holder of SS Sword and both types sports badge. SS number 276,204 but NEVER a Nazi Party member(!) and unmarried.

Per "Camp Men" he had served in the 2nd Guard Company at Dachau 1934-35, but went on to be a career WAFFEN-SS officer, reaching SS Hauptsturmf?hrer: EK 1, silver (4) Wound Badge, in "Das Reich" Division 1940-43, and "Totenkopf" Division 1944.

So if this is a teenager....

[Biro]

...I am having a tough time trying to read the ink against the photo contrast.....

←

Better?

Marshall

[Guest Rick Research]

Yup! Thanks!

But Eric STILL needs an Epson 2400 series scanner or a lot more home leave!

I am pretty sure that is the German "B" to start, no upper "bump" so scribbled it looks like an "L."

The handwriting problem is the "long h" here has an extra dangling squiggly that could well be a "g" and not an "h" which makes this "Burger."

[attachmentid=5817]

I don't find any seeming match, but then with my gaps in SS Seniority Lists, NONE of the suspects so far were on staff of "Elbe," making DATING this crucial. Even the initial "J" could be not HIS first initial but the "I" of "Ihrem"... "FROM YOUR...Lastname."

I know what Eric... mail me everything and I will scan.

[Erich]

Looks like Bucher is it!

Erich

[Eric K.]

Thanks Rick

sorry it took so long to reply but for some reason im not getting an email reply to this thread???

I'll post pics tonight, the other photo I have of him shows him wearing An EK1,IAB and what looks to be a gold wound badge.

Eric

Edited July 13, 2005 by Eric K.

[Guest Rick Research]

Sounds like Josef Bucher!!!! Can you see a wartime divisional cufftitle?

[Eric K.]

No war time cufftitle

[Eric K.]

Heres the other one

[Eric K.]

Heres a full shot .I know!! I need a scanner!!

Eric

[Guest Rick Research]

I betcha that's him-- looks like a baby with the hat on, but looks old with receding hairline in the other one.

BUT!!!!!!!

What do my eyes espy???--

a TWELVE YEARS SS RUNES RIBBON BAR!!!!!!!

1) I wonder how he could have gotten that, and if we had his service records, would have a clue as to how long these WERE handed out during the war

2) Man, I have GOT to get THAT "all awards" photo SCANNED for my Perpetual Ribbon Bar Project.

[Eric K.]

you can also see the runes on the smaller pic I first posted the one with the funky back ground .....don't ask.

it's MUCH clearer than the pics I posted.

Eric

Edited July 13, 2005 by Eric K.

[Guest Rick Research]

Epson! Epppppppppppson! You are getting verrrrry sleeeeepy!

Actually, regulations seem to state that "war service" counted double. IF that was true, that would explain his "12," but not why so few others ever show up in period wear like this.

There is a fall 1944 Waffen-SS Hauptsturmf?hrers and up Rank List reprint, but I only have the Sturmbannf?hrers and up versions.

Has anybody got the Waffen SS reprint showing Bucher's final rank date and awards as coded during the war?

[Guest Rick Research]

Eric's photos came to visit my Epson today.

Here we see the Happy Family Bucher. Undated-- maybe about 1930 from the apparent age of Josef 3rd from right?

Appparently families that wore Lederhosen with uniforms were a fun bunch.

Josef looks like he is 12 or so to my aging eyes. He was born 20 November 1917, so I'm guessing about 1930? His older and younger brothers are wearing early HJ caps, with shoulders traps-- and he's got what looks like a black overseas cap and an HJ type traingle but no straps or armband.

Per French L. MacLean's "The Camp Men," he served in the 2nd Guard Company at Dachau 1934-35 before graduating from SS Junkerschule Braunschweig and being commissioned as an Untersturmf?hrer while still only 18 1/2. Here he is, # 9873 in the 1 December 1937 SS Dienstaltersliste-- then serving in the Sicherheitsdienst!!!!

[Guest Rick Research]

But in this portrait (circa 1938????) he is an Allgemeine SS Untersturmf?hrer on the staff of SS Oberabschnitt Elbe (Dresden)-- clutching his SS JS officer's sword and displaying both National and S.A. Sports Badges in bronze but no other awards yet.

NOW he looks...

14.

Difficult to imagine him bossing around bull-necked Old Fighter thugs. That whole "blond beast" thing just doesn't work when he couldn't shave yet.

[Guest Rick Research]

Hairline receding along with promotion to Waffen SS Obersturmf?hrer:

Ribbon-bar-cropped-off but note that he has the 12 Years SS, Austrian, and (off camera) Sudeten with Prague bar. I don't know when his promotions above Usf occurred, but to have gotten the 12, with double war time, this must be circa 1942-- so he was in Waffen SS Division "Das Reich."

[Guest Rick Research]

In his final rank of Waffen SS Hauptsturmf?hrer (looking like a balding high school senior):

Oddly enough for having been what seems like an underaged member of the SS and child-officer... he never joined the Nazi Party!

MacLean reports per his personnel file in the U.S. National Archives that Bucher was wounded 4 times. From his infantry assault badge (bronze?) he belonged to that branch, but other service details are not known. He switched over from "Das Reich" to "Totenkopf" 1943/44 and apparently survived the war.

Eric-- this and closeup posted in the Ribbon Bars In Wear section too!

[Eric K.]

As always Rick you are the man!!!!! Thanks alot for the research , it's always good to put a name to the face.

Eric (still epsonless)

[PKeating]

Interesting. Josef Bucher - SS-Nr 276 204 - is listed elsewhere as an SS-Unterscharf?hrer with 3./SS-Panzer-Grenadier-Rgt 3

Born 20.11.1917 in Bayrischzell

Died 10.5.1945

SS-Pz.Gr.AuE.Btl.2 in April 1945 as SS-Hauptsturmf?hrer

1./SS-Panzergrenadier-Rgt 5 in August 1944 as SS-Hstuf und Chef

10./SS-Panzergrenadier-Rgt 3 in February 1943 as SS-Ustuf (presumably promoted to SS-Ostuf there)

4./SS-Infanterie-Rgt 7 in November 1941 as SS-Ustuf

3./SS-Panzergrenadier-Rgt 3* in September 1939 as SS-Unterscharf?hrer

I don't think the SS-VT had any panzergrenadier units in 1939 and he was commissioned in 1936 so perhaps this entry is an error due to postwar administration.

PK

[Robin Lumsden]

Great ribbon bar photo!

[Guest Rick Research]

Hmmmm, "died" 10 May 1945.

That date and place of birth are what MacLean has for him in "The Camp Men." There often seems to have been a disconnect between Allgemeine SS and Waffen SS ranks held by the same officers, but since he graduated from the Junkerschule, what surprised me was seeing him in the BLACK outfit. I thought those schools were solely for what was the VT/Waffen SS-to-be.

I usually only deal withg OLD Nazis, not young ones.

[Stogieman]

Great bunch of research and efforts guys!

[Colin Davie]

If a close scan of the tinnie the HJ member is wearing (2nd on the left) of the picture can be provided it can be dated pretty accurately.

C