Argentinian War Dead Memorial offer.

[Kev in Deva]

Argentinian war dead memorial offer Sunday April 1, 03:58 PM

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/01042007/344/arge...rial-offer.html

Relatives of Argentinian soldiers killed in the Falklands War are being invited to hold a private memorial ceremony on the Islands later this year, Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett has announced.

Mrs Beckett said they were being offered the opportunity to travel to Darwin - a settlement in Lafonia on East Falkland - for a ceremony at the Argentine Military Cemetery.

The move comes after an earlier offer by the UK Government to hold a joint commemorative event in London was snubbed by Argentina.

Speaking on the eve of the 25th anniversary of the invasion, Mrs Beckett said: "The resulting loss of life on both sides is a source of continuing regret. The commemorative events this year, planned in the UK and on the Islands, will be a fitting and respectful tribute to all those who fought in the 1982 conflict."

She added: "The UK remains keen to foster a constructive relationship with Argentina, and to promote practical co-operation both in the South Atlantic and on broader issues of international co-operation."

Mrs Beckett said the UK had offered to host a joint commemoration in London "in the spirit of reconciliation, and with a genuine desire to recognise the loss of life on both sides".

But this was rejected in February by Argentinian foreign minister Jorge Taiana who claimed it was being given "the character of a victory celebration".

In a statement, Mrs Beckett said: "We have now, with the agreement of the Falkland Islands Government, offered members of families of the Argentine armed forces who fell in 1982 the opportunity to travel to the Islands towards the end of 2007 to hold a private commemorative event at the Argentine cemetery in Darwin."

She continued: "The principles of freedom, democracy and self-determination remain as important to us today as they did in 1982."

Mrs Beckett hailed the islanders as "dynamic and forward-looking", adding: "I congratulate them on the achievements of the past 25 years, and wish them every success for the future."

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[leigh kitchen]

I was always puzzled as to why the British allowed Argentine war dead to be buried on the Falkland Isles - a memorial I could understand, but at the time I think most people in Britain could'nt understand why cemetaries?

In retrospect, if it encourages a peaceful interaction between the Argentines & islanders it's a good thing.

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Leigh,

Traditional battlefield casualties were buried where they fell, depending on the size of the losses, some soldiers would be repatriated to their homeland.

I wonder was the reason for the Argentinian War dead being left on the Falklands because the Argentinian government refused to bring them home? Have they (the Argentine Government) ever looked for repatriation of their war dead?

I doubt if the British would have footed the bill for repatriation, seeing as they had taken casualties themselves and it would have been hard to explain to the British tax-payer why they were footing the bill.

It long past time the anamosity was over, the Falkland Islanders I am sure would welcome the visitors to the graves, and show hospitality to the Argentinian families, as long as there were no flag-waving politico's accompniying them on the visits.

Kevin in Deva.

[leigh kitchen]

Meanwhile the Argentine president marks the anniversary by making a demand that the UK hand the islands over to.........Argentina.

Had Argentina previously ever occupied the islands or ever had any legitimate claim to them?

[Kev in Deva]

Meanwhile the Argentine president marks the anniversary by making a demand that the UK hand the islands over to.........Argentina.

Had Argentina previously ever occupied the islands or ever had any legitimate claim to them?

Hallo Leigh,

An internet search probably would give the history better than I could, as it tends to decend into a political debate, (and outside the scope of this Forum) as far as I am aware the Argentinians never settled the islands and showed very little interest into them, the turning point being the discovery of the large amounts of oil and mineral resources in the seas there-abouts, by obtaining the Falkland Isles the Argentinian National waters could be far extended out into the Atlantic.

Kevin in Deva.

Edited April 3, 2007 by Kev in Deva

[Ardent]

Hallo Leigh,

An internet search probably would give the history better than I could, as it tends to decend into a political debate, (and outside the scope of this Forum) as far as I am aware the Argentinians never settled the islands and showed very little interest into them, the turning point being the discovery of the large amounts of oil and mineral resources in the seas there-abouts, by obtaining the Falkland Isles the Argentinian National waters could be far extended out into the Atlantic.

Kevin in Deva.

Long history of animosity between the countries going back 300 years although those on the islands claim British familiarity and no Argentine-supporting residents

Becket coming under fire for favouring Argentine relations over recognition of British losses

[Ed_Haynes]

Let us hope that this thread doesn't morph into something ugly, political, and jingoistic.

[Kev in Deva]

Let us hope that this thread doesn't morph into something ugly, political, and jingoistic.

Hallo Ed

I have no intention of allowing that, any political ranting will be deleted straight away, out of respect for the dead on both sides.

Kevin in Deva.

Edited April 3, 2007 by Kev in Deva

[leigh kitchen]

Let us hope that this thread doesn't morph into something ugly, political, and jingoistic.

I don't see why it should, but either there is discussion on the thread or it's simply an information posting to say that there's a ceremony, end of story.

Admittedly however, it's a relatively recent war for a cause which was fairly clear cut in British public opinion, unlike some that have followed.........

[Kev in Deva]

Let us hope that this thread doesn't morph into something ugly, political, and jingoistic.

I don't see why it should, but either there is discussion on the thread or it's simply an information posting to say that there's a ceremony, end of story.

Admittedly however, it's a relatively recent war for a cause which was fairly clear cut in British public opinion, unlike some that have followed.........

Hallo Leigh

thanks for your post, there is a strong GMIC policy (one which I favour) to keep postings none political, our interest are in items of militaria, and not in the political reasons which lead to the conflicts, this policy is the same for all threads regardless of the place in history and tends to keep, the forum a user friendly place.

My original posting was to show there was an opportunity being given to Argentinian families to visit the place where there family members are buried.

Kevin in Deva.

[Nick]

Let us hope that this thread doesn't morph into something ugly, political, and jingoistic.

I think this war unlike many was a pretty clear cut affair, the invasion by one nation onto another nations Soverign Territory. Yes the political wrangling of which country governs these bleak islands in the middle of the South Atlantic has raged for centuiries and will likely go on for a few more. But when political debate turns into a military invasion there is really little option but to go to war. British opinion was behind this at the time and still is today.

Both sides fought and died for what they thought was right, (sadly many Argentinians soldiers were conscripts who had no choice in the matter), and I think it is right that we honour both sides and remember the futility, but at the same time perhaps acknowledge the necessity of warfare.

[Ed_Haynes]

British opinion was behind this at the time and still is today.

True. But world public opinion was not and, to this day, may not be as supportuve.

This, maybe, is the danger of near-contemporary discussions on an international forum?

[Nick]

I agree that an International Forum makes black and white issues a shade of grey depending on the political, religious, moral and social values of the participant and the main reason for not having political or religious debate on the forum.

The silence from the International Community during the Falklands War was deafening to both sides, Argentina & Britain were very much left on their own to fight it out. Whether this was because of split allegiances, the arms deals brokered with both sides or a clear disapproval of the military action (by either side) is a matter of semantics and history.

[Ed_Haynes]

. . . a matter of semantics and history.

And a fascinating one, but one perhaps for future historians.

[Laurence Strong]

Why the British left them there is anyone's guess. My bet would be the Argie's left them there so they have a tie or link to the island for future use, as either a means of exhortation for the people or as leverage on the International stage.

[Simon Orchard]

Long history of animosity between the countries going back 300 years although those on the islands claim British familiarity and no Argentine-supporting residents

Becket coming under fire for favouring Argentine relations over recognition of British losses

Seeing an MM besides a South Atlantic gong reminds me. In the late 80's my troop Sgt. had picked up an MM in the Falklands, he'd been a full screw in an arty OP party. Top bloke, quiet, very modest and never talked about it.

[leigh kitchen]

True. But world public opinion was not and, to this day, may not be as supportive.

It's rather unrealistic to discuss a topic such as this without expecting people of the nations involved to hold views supporting their countries role, particularly if they were participants in the war.

I was'nt, 'tho I later worked with Falklands War veterans of both sides - British ex-Commandos & SBS, Argentine soldiers & sailors -working in the same organisation. There was discussion of the war, naturally politicians were condemned but there was no animosity within the organisation.

Comments made on this thread so far have not even bordered on the jingoistic, a term justifiably suited to the Anglo-Boer War or the Great War but not to restrained & sensible comment on this conflict.

I note that while an over sensitive suspicion of Brits unsurprisingly siding with their own countrys role in a small war causes reference to jingoism & brings out the threat of the big thread killing stick, there have for some reason in the recent past been a few irrelevant negative references to the British Empire in threads about medals. Nobody's seen fit to take issue with those, so why the big deal over this thread?

Yes, there's a ceremony re war dead on the islands, yes it's a sad thing that anyone died, but questions as to why on earth Britain allowed Argentine dead to remain on the islands seem relevant. At the time, the suspicion was that they provided a little foothold for Argentina.

Not all nations leave their war dead in situ, I don't know what Argentinas usual policy is, if they have one, but presumably after the war bringing back the dead was'nt a state priority.

The 25th anniversary & we've come a long way, as Argentinas president repeats demands the British hand the islands over.

There are also suggestions that they be jointly administered, interestingly some Argentine experts are stating that this would be beneficial to the islands economy as natural resources could then be fully exploited.

At the time of the war it was heavily suspected in Britain that the FCO sat back & did nothing prior to the Argentine invasion as it saw a means of ditching responsibility for the islands. No doubt sheer incompetency played a part too.

A couple of years ago the current British government was seriously considering plans to offload Gibralter on Spain, whilst denying Gibraltarians any say in the matter, so who knows what British politicianswill agree to in relation to the Falkland Isles.

As long as the future does'nt involve anybody invading anybody else - that's the main thing.

Edited April 3, 2007 by leigh kitchen

[Ulsterman]

Interesting thread. I have been watching medal developments in Argentina for a year now as the anniversary approaches. There are a limited number of references on Argentine medals of all eras. The Falklands?Malvinas campaign medals are less obscure,-sort of.

One of them out there was put out by the Argentine navy shortly after the war and another is Jeff Floyd's article in the JOMSA.

There have been two major philatelic developments that I have observed:

1. The 20th and 25th anniversary of the war have prompted lots of provincial and municipal ceremonies-and specific medals. That is, cities like Rio Grande, Buenos Aries and some provinces have awarded commemorative medals to veterans of the war.

2. The Argentine federal government itself seems to have had at least three and maybe even 4 iterations of the campaign medal. I have medals with dates 1986, 1990 and 1993 on them (issue dates) and I have seen ones out there with 1996 on them. I have even spotted what I think are recently made Chinese fakes-although these may be legitimate replacement medals for all I know.

I am coming to the conclusion that state issued commemorative medals are a symbol of rising or solidifying political power. While they commemorate history and historical acts, they also seem to illustrate inchoate political confidence.

In Argentina, "Los Chicos" were ignored and demeaned for quiet some time-much like Vietnam vets in the USA up until the mid 1980s. Their time seems to have arrived and they are certainly flexing some socio-political muscle. This muscle flexing also seems to reflect new found Argentine economic and political confidence.

There's a PhD thesis in there somewhere I think.

Pictures from last weeks parades.

Edited September 10, 2017 by Ulsterman

[Ulsterman]

Here's one with the name on the back. They are supposed to be engraved, but many are seen without a name on the back.

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Ulsterman,

Some nice pictures of the vets and their medals, the last posted is the unnamed version

also

Maradonna lookalike??

Kevin in Deva.

[Ulsterman]

Madonna????!

here's a vet from terra del Fuego. The variety of the official (local) commemorative medals is stunning.

[Kev in Deva]

Madonna????!

No Maradonna he of "the Hand of God" in the World cup, not she of the pointy bras and blonde hairdos

Kevin in Deva

[Ulsterman]

No Maradonna he of "the Hand of God" in the World cup, not she of the pointy bras and blonde hairdos

Kevin in Deva

Ah-my mistake.

I must confess, I did wonder at the reference.

[Chris Boonzaier]

What she be getting the medal for? Miss camel-toe 2007?

[Ulsterman]

What she be getting the medal for? Miss camel-toe 2007?

Yeah, I wondered about that- I think she's accepting it on behalf of her husband. there seems to be a line of people on the right handing out the crosses in boxes.