the next crazy medal group.....

[HeikoGrusdat]

Here is the next crazy medal group I want to show you... I say nothing more, I am very interested in your comments

the back is RED....

Heiko

[Daniel Cole]

I had a bar once that was to a Oberstleutnant Schulze Kommandeur Reserve Ersatz Regiment No.4. Schultze that had the combination of

EK2, HHOx, Oldenburg, Hamburg, RAO4, 25 Year and Centennial. What I don't know is what is the Colonial Denkmunze fur Weisse for and what are the last 2 ribbons.

[Jacky]

the last two seems russian to me, which could be true for the second last ribbon....

Kind regards,

Jacky

[Josef Rietveld]

The last one is the socalled cross of mercy, a royal serbian decoration for the balkan war 1912. i can't imgaine taht it was awarded to a german officer

haynau

[Daniel Cole]

I think the red and yellow is the Russian Order of St. Anne. I agree with the Serbian call as pictired, but is the ribbon wrong, or is the medal/cross wrong to the ribbon?

Edited April 3, 2007 by Daniel Cole

[Yankee]

Nice bar, certainly is the correct ribbon for the St. Anne order or the medal which I strongly doubt. Prior to WWl this combination could very well be.

[Paul C]

Can we see a picture of the back. Is there a medal missing? the red and yellow does seem to be the St. Anna, but what is missing. Did did a quick look for a officer with the ROA4, Kol and St Anna any grade and no luck in Army.

[Yankee]

Ooops my mistake, he disposed of his St.Anne but decided to keep his Serbian decoration that is odd

Sincerely

Yankee

[Jacky]

the ribbon for the cross of mercy is bleu-ish

but this ribbon is green.

Concerning the ribbon of the order of st Anna, there was also a medal of Zeal, which had been awarded quite extensive! The ribbon denoted the rank of the receipment, soldiers would receive this medal on the ribbon of a lower order than NCO's.

A medal of zeal is quite possible...

Kind regards,

Jacky

[Yankee]

the ribbon for the cross of mercy is bleu-ish

but this ribbon is green.

Concerning the ribbon of the order of st Anna, there was also a medal of Zeal, which had been awarded quite extensive! The ribbon denoted the rank of the receipment, soldiers would receive this medal on the ribbon of a lower order than NCO's.

A medal of zeal is quite possible...

Kind regards,

Jacky

Hi Jacky

That is a very likely possibility since the St. Anne ribbon was widely used on other medals. I apologize for not being clear it was the medal ( badge of honour ) to the St. Anne order that I was thinking on. Thanks for that

Sincerely

Yankee

[HeikoGrusdat]

OK gentlemen.... here is the back.

You are right: there are 8 ribbons and only 7 medals on the bar - BUT - there are only 7 hooks on the back and the bar is originally mounted and sewn, no repairs or add ons, nothing faked in my eyes........ so what means that?

[saschaw]

What is the exactly colour of the last ribbon? Looks like a ugly yellow-green to me. If it doesn't match to the Serbian cross, what else might it be for? Maybe for a Italian St. Mauricius & Lazarus Order?!

The seconds to last ribbon is for sure Russian, and if we believe(!) no one changed the Red Eagle Order, it is an officer's bar, which makes, I guess, a medal for Zeal impossible. Wasn't this such a NCO's award, whereas officers got real orders like Stanislaus and St. Anna?

For me it is a WWI navy officer's bar from about 1918 to 20s - post-war I guess because he wears yet World War awards (at least the Iron Cross and the Oldenburg one!), but as well the Russian one, a enemy's award - and IF the last ribbon is GREEN and Italian, the same for this!

@Heiko:

I answered before I read your post. Seven hooks hook me ...

@Yankee:

was the Russian "Badge of Honour" a officer's or NCO award?

Edited April 3, 2007 by saschaw

[Guest Rick Research]

Well. Although I have been wrong ONCE on this style of medal bar it was not NORMALLY worn by officers.

So:

What this suggest to me is that the Saint Anna ribbon in fact HAD no award:

there was a "5th Class" which was a sword knot with an enamel device normally placed on a sword hilt but sometimes, in German groups, found made into a funny little pendant that LOOKED like a medal. This guy, I think, had no such little emblem and so put his "empty" ribbon on there.

I have absolutely no clue what the last ribbon might be.

Despite the red backing here, I think this was a naval Deck or Petty Officer's group. The awards have been switched. And the Saint Anna may well have been a White Russian 1919 Baltic award.

[HeikoGrusdat]

I don`t think that it is the Lazarus ribbon, it is a really mixed colour of green and yellow, in germany we call it "heugr?n"....... here is a closeup of the last ribbon....

[Guest Rick Research]

Yucky green could be fading. Might be Persian. Might be Swedish. Might be ... almost anything. That's the problem with hook back bars.

The combination of Oldenburg, Colonial, and "foreign stuff" leads me to think naval rather than army.

[Jacky]

?nd I have to say that the st Anne ribbons are quite oftener found on naval bars than on land-bars....

Which might be another hint for the naval-theme of this bar.

And also, I meant to have readed somewhere and somehow that the russians also had a ribbon as a sign of merit instead of a "complete" medal.

Might be the same as the "unit citations" which are common with the Americans, also just a piece of ribbon and not a "complete" medal.

But I might also be completely off-road.

[Yankee]

What is the exactly colour of the last ribbon? Looks like a ugly yellow-green to me. If it doesn't match to the Serbian cross, what else might it be for? Maybe for a Italian St. Mauricius & Lazarus Order?!

The seconds to last ribbon is for sure Russian, and if we believe(!) no one changed the Red Eagle Order, it is an officer's bar, which makes, I guess, a medal for Zeal impossible. Wasn't this such a NCO's award, whereas officers got real orders like Stanislaus and St. Anna?

For me it is a WWI navy officer's bar from about 1918 to 20s - post-war I guess because he wears yet World War awards (at least the Iron Cross and the Oldenburg one!), but as well the Russian one, a enemy's award - and IF the last ribbon is GREEN and Italian, the same for this!

@Heiko:

I answered before I read your post. Seven hooks hook me ...

@Yankee:

was the Russian "Badge of Honour" a officer's or NCO award?

Hi Saschaw

It was only awarded to non-commissioned officers & lower ranks. They were frequently awarded to foreigners as well. Did see one awarded in gold to an English group but the norm is silver gilt. The medal is more rare then the order & the Non Christian type is super duper rare

[Wild Card]

Gentlemen,

How about one of these (third from right)? Imperial Russian medal for zeal; I think that's what it's called. They show up from time to time on Imperial German groups.

Regards,

Wild Card

[Jacky]

Very very very nice one,

the one next to it is the medal of the House-order of Orange!!

Congrats, could you give us some more information & pictures on this bar and it's receipment?

Kind regards,

Jacky

[Wild Card]

Thank you Jacky,

Aside from the Brunswick connection, I really like the ?foreign? decorations on this group - not the usual. Unfortunately, I?ve never gotten an identification on it. I rather suspect that it belonged to a minor member of the Brunswick court or even household staff.

Here is a better look at the entire group; front and back.

Thank you again and best wishes,

Wild Card

[Wild Card]

Reverse.

[HeikoGrusdat]

Wild Card..... GREAT BAR you have there

[Wild Card]

Thank you HeikoGrusdat,

Nothing spectacular; but an unusual combination -

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[Paul C]

Since we are talking about a Russian medal for Zeal, here it is on a Saxon bar.

[Ulsterman]

nice bar Wild Card.

So, how about a medal of Zeal handed out by the Tzarina on one of her frequent visits home -only a neck version?

I have seen bars where medals unworn at the neck or on the coat , were represented on the bar.