Luftwaffe Luft flightcaps with short cable..

[Jos Le Conté]

Statement :

ALL German Luftwaffe flightcaps (should) have a long cable. ( about 1,25 meter / 50 inch )

At least 1000nds of pics only show the long one.

There're caps on the market and in collections which have a short cable though. ( about 15-30 cm / 6-12 inch)

Were they used in this configuration and by what plane/pilot ??

One collector once opened the connector of a short version and inside the connector all was perfectly in original state, so the cable wasn't cut as we thought ...

We've seen few pics,but all were Hmmm.., so, none of them showed exactly what we liked to see.... a clear shot of a pilot with a short cable.

Any news ?

I'm still curious ...

Jos.

[Bill Bourque]

Hello Jos, this is a pic I found recently. I believe the part shown is the attachment plug not the throat mike due to the suns reflection. Seems a short cord but also maybe its a long cord and positioned as such. If this pic was only about 2" larger one could tell for certain. Best, Bill

[Wood]

Hi Jos, I thought that it was excepted knowledge that these were post war adaptions by eastern block countrys, or am I wrong? But then I always bow to your knowledge on these subjects.

Regards,

Pete

[Jos Le Conté]

Hi Bill,

I've studied the pic and what I think I see is the side of the leather strap which holds the throatmic and a part of the throatmic.., but at first sight I agree it looks like a short cable with plug..

Like you I also try to find tha pic..., but sofar all we've is " could it be..? "..., very frustrating..

Pete, yes.., my personal thought and also other collector's thoughts were that the cables were cut postwar to use in other planes...., but.....,like I said, a collector opened a plug and all was fine inside..., which indicates they were made this way , sofar in my opinion..., this made some of us curious and we still are, at least I am...

So, we've to wait for the right pic and now we pay even more attention to era pics..., but it's not easy sofar and maybe we'll never find out..., but we've to try..

Jos.

[Bill Bourque]

Hello Jos, heres my rebuttal to this fun discussion. One can see the bright glare of the sun reflected on the forehead leather and the N&G googles. If in the wartime pic that is a mike strap it would have to be sitting near perfectly on its edge for about 10cm to have this type of reflection. A mike strap has minimal refection on its 2-3mm dark leather edge and its soft creme colored chamois backing. Hard for me to picture a mike strap giving this effect in the wartime photo. An attachment cord however is cylindrical and plastic coated and would give a confluent reflective glare while in any position. If it is a mike strap I would think one could see the other strap somewhere in the picture. I think the wartime pic shows more of a dome-shaped bakelite attachment than a mike as the profile of a mike would be flatter. Here is a pic I took of a flight helmet. One can see that the light refection off a dome-shaped attachment is vertical in appearance and continues upwards along the cord, this appears to me the more so in the wartime pic. If you look at the mike, the refection is horizontal. If I were to rotate the attachment slightly the vertical reflective glare would be even more. This alone doesnt prove the existance of short cord as this wartime pic may represent a coiled long cord draped behind the pilot. This a pic from one of Eric Mombeek's books. Its possible he has an uncropped version of this pic. I believe Francois S. declared the existance of a wartime Luft photo showing an unquestionable short cord. Im not convinced myself yet but its fun to research. Bill

[Bill Bourque]

Enlargement.

[mjfur]

Maybe this will end the dabate.

Regards,

Mike

[mjfur]

Pic 2

[Jos Le Conté]

I would gladly see a good close-up of that huge thing hanging there..

Would that be possible , Mike ?

Jos.

[François SAEZ]

I would gladly see a good close-up of that huge thing hanging there..

Would that be possible , Mike ?

Jos.

More than a close up, I am a little bit confused by the picture, doesn't seem to be a pilot in a WW2 german uniform and ..... I don't know ..... is it a WW2 photo?

[Jos Le Conté]

More than a close up, I am a little bit confused by the picture, doesn't seem to be a pilot in a WW2 german uniform and ..... I don't know ..... is it a WW2 photo?

Agree...,maybe in that case we need a close-up of his belt buckle first..., except for the flightcap and swimmingvest (both used postwar also IMO ),we don't see much to say that it's a wartime pic.

Jos.

[Snoopy]

Hello

I agree with you. It doesn't look like normal german pilots clothing. Just a thaught, could it be a staged photo, of a german mechanic, posing as a pilot?

Snoopy

Edited April 23, 2007 by Snoopy

[François SAEZ]

... I believe Francois S. declared the existance of a wartime Luft photo showing an unquestionable short cord. Im not convinced myself yet but its fun to research. Bill

Not that sure I ever mention it is unquestionable, but Mike or Jos can post the photo here of the one I got on ebay for more opinions.

Concerning what I think:

A) I would really be pleased to see one or more pics showing short cables (not only for the mesh ones).

B) As highlighted by Jos in the first post, maths make the difference and if for 2/3 pictures showing a short cable we have 10000 pics showing a long one, if most of the "typical fighter" offered on the market have short cable ........... each collector can make his own opinion and that is what is fine with this: we can disagree without calling each other with bird names.

At the end, as I don't have one short cable in my collection, I don't need to prove anything, meaning that if I had one I would probably try to be more persuasive.

[François SAEZ]

Hello

I agree with you. It doesn't look like normal german pilots clothing. Just a thaught, could it be a staged photo, of a german mechanic, posing as a pilot?

Snoopy

Seems to me a T-shirt with a mechanic overall,not especially german and doubtfully WWII - but I can be wrong

Sad we can't see the shoes

[mjfur]

Obviously no matter how many pictures I post in this thread or other threads some people won't change thier minds about short cords. Compare the hanger doors in the background.

Everything about the picture points to being wartime, LKp-N101, Schwimmveste & Bf-110. Who used Bf-110's post war? As far as I can tell it's "no one".

I believe Francois wanted to see his shoes.??????????????

Mechanic, janitor, pilot, secretary, does it really matter what they are. It still shows a short cord helmet. They apparently existed.

Regards,

Mike

Edited April 23, 2007 by mjfur

[mjfur]

pic

[Snoopy]

Hello mjfur

Great pictures of an early Bf 110. Probably a D or E model, with underwing bombracks. I believe that these pictures must be early to mid war. I know it's off topic, but I am trying to identify the unit emblem on the nose of the aircraft. Do you know which unit the emblem belongs to?

Snoopy

Edited April 24, 2007 by Snoopy

[Jos Le Conté]

Obviously no matter how many pictures I post in this thread or other threads some people won't change thier minds about short cords.

I disagree, I would, but only when I'm convinced by a good shot of it..

Everything about the picture points to being wartime, LKp-N101, Schwimmveste & Bf-110. Who used Bf-110's post war? As far as I can tell it's "no one".

We didn't see that 2nd pic..

I believe Francois wanted to see his shoes.??????????????

Mechanic, janitor, pilot, secretary, does it really matter what they are. It still shows a short cord helmet. They apparently existed.

Regards,

Mike

[François SAEZ]

Obviously no matter how many pictures I post in this thread or other threads some people won't change thier minds about short cords. Compare the hanger doors in the background.

Everything about the picture points to being wartime, LKp-N101, Schwimmveste & Bf-110. Who used Bf-110's post war? As far as I can tell it's "no one".

I believe Francois wanted to see his shoes.??????????????

Mechanic, janitor, pilot, secretary, does it really matter what they are. It still shows a short cord helmet. They apparently existed.

Regards,

Mike

Well Mike,

You seem to get it all wrong in what I am saying

I am not saying short cables never exist, but only that they are (if attributed) not typical and not typical to fighter.

The fact is that in most actual collections/makets/shows they seems to be all over speaks for itself, if one can't see that - fine and end of the story.

I am the first to recognize and to applaude everytime you find a pic (really) but 2 or 3 pics (in my eyes) will never make it "typical item" and certainly not "typical fighter".

Showing the shoes would have shown flying boots or special mechanic boots or civilian shoes in case of an ingeneer or a test pilot.

[Jos Le Conté]

The picture seems to be rather sharp, Mike, would it be possible to make a close-up of the connector ?

Jos.

[mjfur]

Well Mike,

You seem to get it all wrong

I am not saying short cables never exist, but only that they are (if attributed) not typical and not typical to fighter.

The fact is that in most actual collections/makets/shows they seems to be all over seaks for itself.

I am the first to recognize and to applaude everytime you find a pic (really) but 2 or 3 pics (in my eyes) will never make it "typcal item" and certainly not "typical fighter".

Showing the shoes would have shown flying boots or special mechanic boots or civilian shoes in case of an ingeneer or a test pilot.

Would it realy matter what type shoes? If he has on mechanics coveralls and flying boots what would that indicate about the flight helmet?

Every pic that I have posted that shows a short cord (Bf-109, Bf-110 and Ba 349) was a fighter type plane.

Yes I agree, very few pics, some not so clear, but this one is. Maybe not typical, but certainly not post war. Last time I checked these threads no one has ever posted any post war pic with a short cord in use.

But then again, I have it all wrong.

[Bill Bourque]

Bravo Mike, that pic convinces me without reservation. Wartime photo, helmet/throat mikes, vest, plane, background, belt/buckle. Maybe a pilot wearing a Blackbird overall. We all are aware of the leeway granted to pilots in their choice of flight wear. Could also be a staged photo of a Blackbird dressing up as a pilot. I have several photos of my father as a US Army Air Corp P38 Lightning engineer/mechanic stateside 1944. Pics of him in his mechanic clothing but also several of him in full flight gear and sitting in the cockpit showing off. There are still hundreds of photos to be further reviewed, Im convinced. Best Bill

Edited April 24, 2007 by Bill Bourque

[Snoopy]

Bravo Mike, that pic convinces me without reservation. Wartime photo, helmet/throat mikes, vest, plane, background, belt/buckle. Maybe a pilot wearing a Blackbird overall. We all are aware of the leeway granted to pilots in their choice of flight wear. Could also be a staged photo of a Blackbird dressing up as a pilot. I have several photos of my father as a US Army Air Corp P38 Lightning engineer/mechanic stateside 1944. Pics of him in his mechanic clothing but also several of him in full flight gear and sitting in the cockpit showing off. There are still hundreds of photos to be further reviewed, Im convinced. Best Bill

Hello

I agree with Bill. I have allso seen pictures of groundcrew dressing up as pilots. I believe that the pictures dates from around 1941-42. If the Bf 110 is attached to a training unit, then it could perhaps be a little later, but still mid war at the latest. I base this opinion on the Bf 110 variant, which I believe is a D or E. I am no expert in these matters, so it's only my personal opinion.

Snoopy

Edited April 24, 2007 by Snoopy

[François SAEZ]

1

[sadolch]

I thought i would bring this topic back,,i posted this this flight measuring helmet on another forum some time ago back,with out much comment...I believe it is before 1945,,,it has throat mics, ear cups with receivers,,and a short cord...all comments welcome...Dave H