Netherlands Netherland. 1672 Medal to students for the defense of Groningen

[Veteran]

Hello everyone

I am trying to gather as much information as I possibly can on the medal supposed to have been given to 120 students at the University of Groningen who fought the Bishop of Munster when he put that city to siege in 1672.

Does anyone know if any of these medals have survived? It seems such a long time ago. If any have, they might well be among the oldest "campaign medals" in existence.

I have a faint recollection of having read something about them in a book on Dutch Orders & Decorations, but cannot remember which (would any one know?). A short notice was found on Google, giving some general information with a picture of the obverse of this silver non wearable medal.

Every bit of information will be gratefully received.

Best wishes to all

Veteran

[Jacky]

the site on the dutch odm has a good collection of this subject,

otherwise, it's owner, eric, also member here, might be able to help you.

the site is here

Kind regards,

Jacky

[Ed_Haynes]

This gets us into the whole complex era where table medals, often made and awarded simply for their intrinsic value (how much gold, how much silver) were mounted (officially or unofficially) and worn from chains or, later, ribbons. A fascinating transitional period, but we are never certain whether what we see is stuff for phaleristic or numismatic study.

[Veteran]

Thank you Jackie, for your tip. I found the book where I had seen the medal mentioned on the site you told me about. It confirms that it is one of the earlier awards for war services, which make me wonder even more if any are known to have survived.

Ed, I fully agree with your remark, which is fully justified when one thinks in terms of wearing medals. The very early official tokens of appreciation were close to monetary rewards, which in many cases were far more popular in those days than medals which did not have true cash value. The wearing of such awards was still an other question, since only orders were currently displayed from a ribbon or a chain. They nevertheless were awards. They were the ancestors of campaign medals to be worn with the uniform.

This is well demonstrated by the French life-saving medals which were officially established around 1810 by Napoleon Ist as non-wearable 40mm and larger silver and gold named medals. The official approach was even to give the person a choice between an official medal or a sum of money, ready cash in some cases being much more of a help to the person it went to. It was over 20 years later that King Louis-Philippe allowed formal wear of life-saving medals, the size of which was later adapted to this end.

In the case of the students of Groningen University, it may have been felt that a distinctive medal would be more in keeping with their statute as gentlemen. In which case the medal truly is an ancestor of modern awards for bravery and service.

Does the story say if other defenders of the City got monetary rewards for their parts in its defense?

I hope more about this medal will come up as time goes. Very best wishes to all

Veteran

This gets us into the whole complex era where table medals, often made and awarded simply for their intrinsic value (how much gold, how much silver) were mounted (officially or unofficially) and worn from chains or, later, ribbons. A fascinating transitional period, but we are never certain whether what we see is stuff for phaleristic or numismatic study.

[Ed_Haynes]

Thanks "Veteran", you highlight the MANY things we have yet to learn, yet to understand! What fun.

[paul wood]

The siege of Groningen produced many medallic issues, including many engraves silver discs (some of amazing quality) siege coins with the reverses engraved and normal commemorative medals. The best reference for the medallic issues is Gerhard van Loon's work on the Low Countries which was published between 1732 and 1737 and is still the standard reference on Low Countries medals from 1519-1706. Much of the knowledge that we get of these award medals is from him. It is quite possible that you may be able to access it in some national library and I am sure that it would clarify which was the medal presented to the students.

All the best,

Paul

Thanks "Veteran", you highlight the MANY things we have yet to learn, yet to understand! What fun.

[paul wood]

Dear all,

You will pleased to know that I have cracked this one (I have already contacted veteran privately) but I thought you might be interested to know all about it. It is a silver "table medal" with the arms of the University of Groningen one side and a dedicatory inscription on the other. It is illustrated in van Loon (to which I have access) vol. III, p. 96 (French edition), pages 95-96 give the full account of the actions in which the students were involved, here is the pertinant piece "...les noms de tous les etudians qui avoient pris des armes; & on leur donna a chacun, en reconnoissance de leur fidelite, un medal d'argent, semblable a ce quelle voici." (line drawing below of the piece). Having dealt with a large number of 16th-18th century Dutch table medals I would anticipate (as was the custom then) that there would be a gold striking presented either to the head of the university or the university itself.

One such piece appeared recently in a Kunker of Osnabruck auction and sold for ?800 (excluding premium).

I hope that this is of interest to fellow members.

All the best,

Paul

[Ed_Haynes]

Thanks, Paul. Is there any evidence -- historical, artistic, or numismatic -- that it was converted for wear?

[paul wood]

I have seen 3 or 4 in my time but have never seen one that has obviously been worn but the tradition of medals (apart from orders) for wearing really did not occur until the latter part of the 18th century, one only has to look at the Louisburg and Germantown medals, or the 17th century naval rewards that they were issued as table medals, one does see from time to time medals which have been adapted for wear by having a loop adapted, especially on the first two mentioned and it is more than probable that some of these medas were similarly adapted. There is another medal of this era issued by the Dutch for the suppression of the Amsterdam Riots, 1696 and presented to the Civic Guard. It came in gold and silver, 58, 46 and 39 mm, the larger designed by Jan Luder, the smaller by Jan Boskam. The obverse depict Neptune in a chariot pulled by two sea horses on a stormy sea, MOTOS PRAESTAT COMPONERE FLVCTVS above, reverse a nest with two doves on a calm sea, sun setting on the horizon, within a central scroll HALCYONIBUS REDVCTIS SENATVS AMSTELOD. CIVIBVS. SVIS. HOC ANTIQVAEVIRTVTIS SPECTATAEQ. FIDEI PRAEMIVM. LARGITVR.

I have seen several of these medals and I know of a gold one which appeared in a Dutch auction many years ago. The silver examples are not uncommom especially in the smaller size and a reasonable example of such should be obtainable for no more than ?300.

Hope this is of interest,

Paul

Thanks, Paul. Is there any evidence -- historical, artistic, or numismatic -- that it was converted for wear?

[Veteran]

A few weeks ago, I requested information about the medal awarded in 1672 to the students at the University of Groningen who defended the citY. Several members of this forum came up with excellent suggestions.

I was able to secure one at auction. It appears to be quite scarce (after all, it was given to only 120 men some 335 years ago !) and the classic book "Orders and Decorations of the Netherlands" by Meijer, Mulder & Wagenaar did not have one to show with their description of the medal. In view of this, I thought the members of the club might enjoy seeing it.

My grateful thanks to the fellow members who generously shared their knowledge and best regards to all.

Veteran

[paul wood]

A very nice example of the medal. I notice that at the top of the medal, both sides there is a weakness which suggests that it may have sometimes been mounted for wearing. Is this the case? Or is it just a weakness in the strike. If the former then it could have been worn by the recipient with pride. A good and very interesting purchase.

Paul

A few weeks ago, I requested information about the medal awarded in 1672 to the students at the University of Groningen who defended the citY. Several members of this forum came up with excellent suggestions.

I was able to secure one at auction. It appears to be quite scarce (after all, it was given to only 120 men some 335 years ago !) and the classic book "Orders and Decorations of the Netherlands" by Meijer, Mulder & Wagenaar did not have one to show with their description of the medal. In view of this, I thought the members of the club might enjoy seeing it.

My grateful thanks to the fellow members who generously shared their knowledge and best regards to all.

Veteran

[Veteran]

Hello Paul

Thank you for your kind word about the medal. Yes, it looks quite beautiful and it is a pleasure to hold in ones' hand.

Careful scrutiny of the upper part shows no true evidence of soldering. The only variation is a slight "blob" in the striking of the obverse at right from upper center (11:45 o'clock). The rest of the rim is absolutely without the slightest trace of mounting on either sides.

To be frank, I really have my doubts that the idea of wearing it to a chain or a ribbon would have occured to anyone at the time.

Again, many thanks for your useful advice. Very best regards

Paul

[fjcp]

Very interesting medal you have there!!

Last week ( maybe two by now), I visited Het Loo and I recall there were some old medals from a similar time period as yours that had a mounting system that one still finds on necklaces today. This method will not damage the medal/coin at all so it would be hard to prove either way but it's something to consider...

Thanks for showing this great medal.

JC (Floor)

Here is a picture of what I was talking about..

Edited June 12, 2007 by fjcp

[Veteran]

Your idea is very good. I nevertheless keep my doubts that any mounting at all was ever used here. Even when the type of mounting you so clearly show is extremely carefully done, slight traces remain on the medal where the claws were in contact with its surfaces.

I am showing an over-contrasted view of the reverse. No trace whatsoever can be seen on it. I hope you can agree with me on this point. The obverse is quite identical.

The notion that a award should preferably be displayed comes much later, well into the XVIIIth century. We, modern collectors, have grown up with the picture of a "gong" hanging onto so kind of an attachment to be displayed. Awards did not have to be obvious to be appreciated. I believe the German word for a commemorative medal translate like " a token of thanks ". A medal.

On the other hands, orders of chivalry, were badges to show you BELONGED to a select group. An outward sign was normal.

Here is the picture. Very best regards

Veteran

Very interesting medal you have there!!

Last week ( maybe two by now), I visited Het Loo and I recall there were some old medals from a similar time period as yours that had a mounting system that one still finds on necklaces today. This method will not damage the medal/coin at all so it would be hard to prove either way but it's something to consider...

Thanks for showing this great medal.

JC (Floor)

Here is a picture of what I was talking about..

[Veteran]

And while we are at it, here is the obverse of the medal, which shows the same untouched edge.

Best regards again

Veteran

[paul wood]

I tend to agree with you, what appears to be upper weakness on the intital images now appears as a die fault anot uncommon occurence in the latter part of the 17th century.

All the best,

Paul

And while we are at it, here is the obverse of the medal, which shows the same untouched edge.

Best regards again

Veteran

[Veteran]

Looking into my preliminary notes about the medal, I found that the University of Groningen has a website, where the 1672 siege is briefly described, and a picture of the obverse of the medal is shown. If you take a look at this photography you will clearly see the same "blob" as on my own.

I tend to think now that it is a good way of insuring it is a genuine piece. What do you think?

Very best regards

Veteran

[paul wood]

Looking into my preliminary notes about the medal, I found that the University of Groningen has a website, where the 1672 siege is briefly described, and a picture of the obverse of the medal is shown. If you take a look at this photography you will clearly see the same "blob" as on my own.

I tend to think now that it is a good way of insuring it is a genuine piece. What do you think?

Very best regards

Veteran

[paul wood]

Looking into my preliminary notes about the medal, I found that the University of Groningen has a website, where the 1672 siege is briefly described, and a picture of the obverse of the medal is shown. If you take a look at this photography you will clearly see the same "blob" as on my own.

I tend to think now that it is a good way of insuring it is a genuine piece. What do you think?

Very best regards

Veteran

[paul wood]

Looking into my preliminary notes about the medal, I found that the University of Groningen has a website, where the 1672 siege is briefly described, and a picture of the obverse of the medal is shown. If you take a look at this photography you will clearly see the same "blob" as on my own.

I tend to think now that it is a good way of insuring it is a genuine piece. What do you think?

Very best regards

Veteran

[paul wood]

Looking into my preliminary notes about the medal, I found that the University of Groningen has a website, where the 1672 siege is briefly described, and a picture of the obverse of the medal is shown. If you take a look at this photography you will clearly see the same "blob" as on my own.

I tend to think now that it is a good way of insuring it is a genuine piece. What do you think?

Very best regards

Veteran

[paul wood]

I am absolutely certain that is a genuine medal and absolutely of the period, the style also suggests that it was made probably by a local jeweller or silversmith rather than by a well known engraver of the period or at one of the major mints extant at the time.

Paul

[Bob]

My area of collecting is Mongolia and Albania mainly, but would like to know more about the Netherlands orders/medals as well. Is this book "Orders and Decorations of the Netherlands" by Meijer, Mulder & Wagenaar the "standard" reference work that's best to get to learn more? Or is there another (up to date?) one?

Thanks,

Bob