Belgium Belgian General awards

[Roeland]

Hello,

maybe someone can help me.

I bought these medals about a year ago from Jacky, he got them from relatives of a Belgian General, the relatives where moving at that time and found the medals which they sold, however we have not been able to find out how the general was called.

there still are medals missing (from which I hope they show up), however I hope someone can do an ID which these:

(the medals are WW1/king albert models)

-grand cross from the order of the crown

-knight in the order of the crown with swords

-knight in the order of Leopold II with swords

-belgian croix de guerre/war cross with leaves and lion

-French croix de guerre/war cross with leaves

-Yser medal

-firecross (vuurkruis)

-The Commemorative Medal of the 100th Anniversary of National Independence

-victory medal

-commemorative 1914-1918 medal with 3 silver bars and 1 golden bar

-special decoration, 1st classe

-commemorative medal for the regime of King Albert I

-Veteran cross

-ww2 commemorative medal

thanks for any info!

someone called General can have different kind of General ranks, it is also possible that the man wasn't general during WW1, but became General after the war.

there should be more medals, Jacky is already trying to contact the relatives for information.

kind regards,

Roeland

[Jacky]

Hi Roeland,

I'm still thinking about this one...

the major points would be;

- centenial medal

- french Croix d'guerre

- 8 front stripes

perhaps that the croix d'guerre might help, but I wouldn't account to much on that one. I have seen pictures of officers wearing less palmes than they are allowed to, even counting gold for 25, silver for 5 bronze, thus when someone would have been allowed to wear 13 palmes, I would expect 5 palmes, 2 silver and 3 bronze.

Also is nearly everything from WW1, except the WW2 commemorative medal on the far right.

Another little voice in my head says that the grandcross might be a commander.....

Which would support a quite low-ranking general....

Will keep looking and trying to contact them.

Kind regards,

Jacky

Edited June 5, 2007 by Jacky

[Roeland]

thanks Jacky,

I've been looking on that site with Belgian Generals you gave me, some have a lot of the same medals, but they all have some major differences.

kind regards,

Roeland

[Roeland]

http://www.ars-moriendi.be/ALBERT_I.HTM

the site you gave me, so other GMIC members can see it to(page in Dutch).

[Steen Ammentorp]

Hi,

Since he was awarded the ww2 commemorate medal, we must assume that he was alive during ww2. I have got a copy of the Belgian Army list 1939/40 active and retired senior officers (majors and above). Now each officer is mentioned with a list of his awards and decorations in abbreviations. Admittedly I know absolute nothing about how Belgian awards and decorations is abbreviated, but if someone careers to list the abbreviations of the awards of the general in question, then I will see whether I can identify him.

Kind Regards

Steen Ammentorp

The Generals of World War II

Edited June 7, 2007 by Steen Ammentorp

[Hendrik]

... Belgian Army list 1939/40 active and retired senior officers (majors and above). Now each officer is mentioned with a list of his awards and decorations in abbreviations...

Hello Steen,

Interesting ! Could you give an example of some of the abbreviations used ? I guess they will be in French but they could also be in Flemish ...

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Steen Ammentorp]

The list is in French.

The entry for Lieutenant-General Denis, the Minister of National Defence, is as such:

Denis, H.-J.-C.-E.

g.o. L p.; g.o. C p.; c. L II gl.; cgb; y; v; co; cm 1re cl.; ct; o. LH; cgf; DSO; o. BE; cgi; c. GL; g.c. ES: g.c. ON.

[Hendrik]

Hello Steen,

Can't figure out all of them (and they are in French as suspected) but here's what I suggest :

g.o. L p : Grand Officer of the Order of Leopold, I'm assuming the "p" stands for "with palm", i.e. indicating it's been awarded for wartime services. Not quite sure though : the Grand Officer decoration is a breast star and thus has no actual palm visible on it.

g.o. C p : Grand Officer of the Order of the Crown with palm ... (same remark as above)

C LII gl : Commander of the Order of Leopold II with swords (crossed swords indicating a WWI veteran)

cgb : Belgian War Cross (Croix de Guerre belge) - unfortunately no indication of ribbon devices such as palms etc. which surely would have been awarded.

y : Yser Medal (or Yser Cross)

v : Victory Medal

co : Commemorative Medal of the 1914-1918 War

cm 1re cl. : Military Cross 1st class (officer's long service award)

ct : ???

o. LH : Officer of the Legion of Honour (France)

cgf : War Cross (France)

DSO : Distinguished Service Order (Great Britain)

o. BE : Officer of the Order of the British Empire (Great Britain)

cgi : War Cross (Italy)

c GL : Commander of ... ??? Are you sure about the GL ? If it's GI, it could mean the Greek Order of Georges I

gc ES : Grand Cross of ... ??? - I guess the "E" could stand for "Etoile" (Star of ... ) ?

gc ON : Grand Cross of ... ???

These last three are obviously non-Belgian orders but my mind's a blank when I try to figure out what they could be.

Cheers,

Hendrik

Edited June 9, 2007 by Hendrik

[Herr General]

gc ON, Grand Cross Oranje Nassau ?

[Hendrik]

gc ON, Grand Cross Oranje Nassau ?

Sounds good to me !

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Steen Ammentorp]

c GL : Commander of ... ??? Are you sure about the GL ? If it's GI, it could mean the Greek Order of Georges I

Double checking it is GL. So using this line of abbreviations how would the list look for our unknown general?

Edited June 9, 2007 by Steen Ammentorp

[Hendrik]

So using this line of abbreviations how would the list look for our unknown general?

I fear that's not going to be easy as I think the group as presented is incorrect and incomplete :

-grand cross from the order of the crown - possibly abbreviated as "gc C" but where is the breast star belonging to this class ? It's not in the pictured frame !

-knight in the order of the crown with swords - irrelevant as the higher grade of grand cross would be the only one mentioned

-knight in the order of Leopold II with swords - "ch LII gl", very lowly class for a general !

-belgian croix de guerre/war cross with leaves and lion - "cgb"

-French croix de guerre/war cross with leaves - "cgf"

-Yser medal - "y"

-firecross (vuurkruis) - possibly "cf" or "cdf"

-The Commemorative Medal of the 100th Anniversary of National Independence - don't know the abbreviation for this one

-victory medal - "v"

-commemorative 1914-1918 medal with 3 silver bars and 1 golden bar - "co"

-special decoration, 1st classe - very suspicious about this being in the actual group : a civilian long service medal for 25 odd years in industry ! Odd general that would have earned that one. I'm assuming this is a mix of medals from two people out of the same family.

-commemorative medal for the regime of King Albert I - don't know the abbreviation ...

-Veteran cross - irrelevant : a non-official award and thus would not be in the list

-ww2 commemorative medal - would not be in the 1939-40 list

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Roeland]

thank you for looking, I know it's a questionable group indeed, especially because of the lower grades, therefore I'm trying to get the name for a year now, I'm not receiving the answer so I asked here because I would like to know if I really bought a General his medals and not something else.

according to the information I was given, there probably are more medals such as a higher grade in the order of Leopold II and the military cross, but the family was moving so they where busy at that moment and not able to make contact or look for the rest.

the lower grades:

- he became a General later in his carreer, the lower medals are still in the property of the General, but won't be mentioned anymore (as Hendrik said, only the Grand cross will be mentioned as it is a higher grade)

- or, as Hendrik assumes, they are from other relatives (the special decoration is what concerned me the most when I bought it)

also; the WW2 commemorative medal probably had swords, there is a small hole in the ribon on the place it normally would be.

looking at the set of medals, we must esteem that probalby a few shouldn't be in it, and some are missing, as hendrik said: incorrect and incomplete.

Jacky, perhaps you can ask your niece for the address (if it is not to much I am asking of course), because maybe I will get a faster answer asking it myself in a letter instead of waiting for your niece to visit them, thank you.

Edited June 11, 2007 by Roeland

[Roeland]

jacky, could you please find out who the awards are from, I bought these a year ago with the promiss I would get the name soon, it is now more then a year ago, I think I have the right to know, escpecially for the price I paid for them.

thank you.

[Vatjan]

jacky, could you please find out who the awards are from, I bought these a year ago with the promiss I would get the name soon, it is now more then a year ago, I think I have the right to know, escpecially for the price I paid for them.

thank you.

Gentlemen, would you be so kind as to resolve this affair through mail or PM.

Jan

[Roeland]

Hello Jan,

sorry if it seems there is an argue or affair between us, in my opinion there is not, I posted the medals here for identification, since it can't be identified here on GMIC, I just asked Jacky again.

However if you still think this topic is about fighting an argue between us, you can delete the entire topic.

Edited July 16, 2007 by Roeland

[Roeland]

after receiving your message, I would like to appologise if I gave any reason for misinterpertation, it wasn't meant as a hostile post.