7 place ribbon bar w/50 year LSC

[Paul C]

A nice mix of TR and Imperial ribbons on a 7 place bar. Of interest is the TR 50 year LSC device. The ribbon are:

1. EK2

2. Hindenburg w/swords

3. Bayern Long Service

4. Bayern Jubilee

5. TR Long Service 50 years

6. TR Luftschutz

7. Red Cross/Volkspflege

I have posted a close up of the 50 year cross. I just got this in a deal and I am not sure I will keep it but I wanted to show it anyway.

Edited June 7, 2007 by Paul C

[Stogieman]

Hi Paul, what was placed on the Luftschutz ribbon? Any shadow(s)? My only concern would be very rare device in worn condition, but the bar itself is in exceptionally good condition. Not impossible, but does give me a "hmmmm" moment.

[Paul C]

I can't determine what was on the luftschutz ribbon. There is no shadow or outline.

[Gerd Becker]

I like it, construction and wear on the ribbons look good to me. Maybe there was a device of the 1st class, who knows... with 50 and more years service, he could have been a higher functionary in the Luftschutz organisation and one of the few recipients of a 1st class?

[Guest Rick Research]

I think this indicates he was a Landwehr NCO:

1) Bavarian Long Service = LD2 because no Jubilee medal-- I'll get back to that!!!- and only 1 wartime decoration (EK2) from minimal actual frontline service.

2) NORMALLY, though not always in the Third Reich, the 1905 and 1911 Jubilee Medals were worn BEFORE long services. AFTER them was where the "Christmas 1918" Medal first given out for Ludwig III"s funeral in 1921 and then as a royalist decoration came AFTER and

3) he couldn't have been a CAREER NonCommissioned Officer and had the 50 years cross for being employed by the same private company.

Also interesting is the reversal of the usual "close enough" ribbons--

that is actually a Turkish Liakat/Medjidie ribbon being used to simulate the Bavarian Jubilee ribbon. Most often we find the Jubilee being used as a make do for the Turkish awards!!!

So, he worked at the same place from about 1890 to 1940 except for his army draftee and wartime called back service.

Yet this ribbon bar suggests he was-- at 65 or 70-- in a UNIFORM again. The Luftschutz and Red Cross suggests some sort of first aid/air riad warden duty.

He would have been a sight to see!

[James Clark]

Miniature ribbon bar devices for the 1st and 2nd Class Luftschutz awards are shown in the Otto Schickle catalogue posted under the Third Reich: General Awards & Militaria forum.

[Gerd Becker]

Miniature ribbon bar devices for the 1st and 2nd Class Luftschutz awards are shown in the Otto Schickle catalogue posted under the Third Reich: General Awards & Militaria forum.

Yes, indeed! Thank you, James

[saschaw]

Also interesting is the reversal of the usual "close enough" ribbons--

that is actually a Turkish Liakat/Medjidie ribbon being used to simulate the Bavarian Jubilee ribbon. Most often we find the Jubilee being used as a make do for the Turkish awards!!!

My apologize for beeing "offtopic", but please tell me what do you think is the last one on this bar? I've got it's big brother, so I know it yet ...

[Guest Rick Research]

Baden long service, with "swamp algae" yellow/green: the color of automobile anti-freeze here. Or Gatorade.

.

[saschaw]

Rick, I'm sorry to tell you so, but: you are w r o n g ...

It is a Bavarian jubilee medal, and I've got no idea how he got this one and ended World War I without a long service decoration ...

[Guest Rick Research]

Which one is it-- 1905 or 1911? So he was past 2nd year "career" army when he got that-- in bavaria-- then LEFT the Bavarian army without completing his enlistment contract... to be called up in Baden for the war?

OK, so now this turns into a Weird Ribbons/Groups thread... I'll be baaaaaaaaaack.

[Guest Rick Research]

OLDENBURGER with Treudienst 50. There IS a rational explanation.

THIS one, though.....

BADEN 1902 jubilee, with a PRUSSIAN/NAVY long service... to someone whose only non-Prussian WW1 decoration was from... HESSE!?

(Pale blue has faded away on front of the Hessian Bravery Medal ribbon, as usual.)

[saschaw]

Which one is it-- 1905 or 1911?

Sorry, I'll have to look this up first. I don't know these strange thigs ...

THIS one, though.....

BADEN 1902 jubilee, with a PRUSSIAN/NAVY long service... to someone whose only non-Prussian WW1 decoration was from... HESSE!?

Oh no Rick, don't argue with pre1918 bars! He got a BZL3bXEl later in the war ...

Edited June 9, 2007 by saschaw

[Ulsterman]

Rick, I'm sorry to tell you so, but: you are w r o n g ...

It is a Bavarian jubilee medal, and I've got no idea how he got this one and ended World War I without a long service decoration ...

Because he was an officer/warrant officer: Lt dR -dL or Officerstellvtr. who got shuffled into a baden artillery/infantry regiment in 1915/16.

Edited June 10, 2007 by Ulsterman

[saschaw]

Because he was an officer/warrant officer: Lt dR -dL or Officerstellvtr. who got shuffled into a baden artillery/infantry regiment in 1915/16.

Officer or Offiziersstellvertreter? That's in my humble opinion impossible, as the Baden Silver merit medal is the lowest Bravery award in World War I, given to Soldiers and (lower) NCOs. An Offiziersstellvertreter (very high NCO, isn't it)?) should have gotten a Z?hringer Merit cross on Karl Friedrich ribbon, and an officer a Z?hringer Lion Order ...

[Ulsterman]

It makes sense if he got it as a Gefreiter/Corp. on his way up. There are lots of photos of Vitzfeldwebels and officer Stellvtrs. and even Lt.s d L/R with lower medals being worn.

[saschaw]

It makes sense if he got it as a Gefreiter/Corp. on his way up. There are lots of photos of Vitzfeldwebels and officer Stellvtrs. and even Lt.s d L/R with lower medals being worn.

Ah, now I see what you meant. This may be, yes. Thanks for your input.

Which one is it-- 1905 or 1911?

It's back reads big "19 05", so it is the ... 1911 issue, isn't it?

[Guest Rick Research]

Yes, giant 19-crown-05 was 1911. Silly Bavarians!!!