A China armbadge mystery

[Ulsterman]

Here's a snap of some troops in China at the turn of the century or thereabouts...anyone know what the armshields are? Are they marksman's competition awards?

[Ulsterman]

Heres the larger view....

Sorry-the photo is just faded:

[Tom Y]

They don't appear to be the right shape for a Schutzenpreis.

[Ulsterman]

no-they are rounder.

But GREAT schutzprize though!

[Chip]

I don't know if any more enlarging of the insignia would make any difference, but being that the patch is round, it might be pioneer's patch (crossed pick and shovel). The Seebataillon pioneers wore such a patch in China. Other than that, I can think of nothing official.

Chip

[Gilles]

I don't know if any more enlarging of the insignia would make any difference, but being that the patch is round, it might be pioneer's patch (crossed pick and shovel). The Seebataillon pioneers wore such a patch in China. Other than that, I can think of nothing official.

Chip

Intersting idea, but the two cockades?as?well?as?the?usual?spike?helmets should exclude any navy unit.

A few round cloth police patches with Chinese signs can be seen on period pictures. Could it be one of them?

Gilles

Edited July 8, 2007 by Gilles

[Chip]

Sorry. I wasn't clear. I did not mean to infer that these were See Batl. troops, rather that these soldiers might have had a similar patch. Gilles, you may be on to something, but I have no knowledge of police speciality patches. I would like to know more if you have additional information.

Chip

[Gilles]

Chip,

the patches were round with completly ununderstandable Chinese signs. Some?period?pictures?were?sold?on?eBay,?I?'ll?have?a?look?if?I?happened?to?save?some?or,?as?usual,?these?are?just?memor

es?from?the?late?motherboard?of?my former?computer?

Gilles

Edited July 9, 2007 by Gilles

[barry8899]

Here's a snap of some troops in China at the turn of the century or thereabouts...anyone know what the armshields are? Are they marksman's competition awards?

May be i know little bit history regarding to WHY one chinese old person in that pic, cause the germany troops has been occupied QING DAO(one of beauteful littoral city in china) in CHINA at 1871. actually from 1840,GB,france,germany,japan,Austria,italia,american and russia warring with QING EMPERY in china.CHINESE called"opium war" totally twice from 1840-1860. so it's not hard explain why you can saw a chinese in that pic.

[leigh kitchen]

Interesting that the Chinese are willing to face the camera. I have a few photos/postcards from that era & the people are all turned away from the lens.

[barry8899]

Interesting that the Chinese are willing to face the camera. I have a few photos/postcards from that era & the people are all turned away from the lens.

HEHE ,i thought that he have to , cause face to camera much better than face bayonet. ~~~

[Guest Rick Research]

I still can't figure out what soldiers in PRUSSIAN headgear are doing here...

as members of the East Asian Expeditionary Force they should have had IMPERIAL eagle plates and the single cockade of Reichs troops, not the two as seen.

[Chris Dale]

I still can't figure out what soldiers in PRUSSIAN headgear are doing here...

as members of the East Asian Expeditionary Force they should have had IMPERIAL eagle plates and the single cockade of Reichs troops, not the two as seen.

The original East Asian Expeditionary Corps of 1900 did wear state cockades, Wappen, belt buckles etc. Only from 9th Feb 1901 were new uniforms introduced with only Reichs insignia.

Yes, I agree with others here the badges may look very simialr to those worn by Police units in China such as the Tsingtao Chinese Police- http://www.seitengewehr.de/Chinesische_Pol..._Kiautschou.pdf

Cheers

Chris

[KIR]

... maybe a bigger scan of the insignia make sence! ... and a little bit Photoshop!

[Naxos]

Are these two wearing the patch as well?

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2009/post-1062-1239734136.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2009/post-1062-1239734154.jpg

Perhaps better scans will shed some light.

Edited April 14, 2009 by Naxos

[Naxos]

[Chris Dale]

Thanks for the close up scans, Naxos. Now maybe those arm badges look different, it's still difficult to make them out for certain. Another curious feature, most of them seem to be wearing line eagles on their Pickelhauben, but one looks to have a Saxon Star. It's not clear enough to be certain. Saxon stars (and Bavarian, Wuerttemberg and Baden Wappen) were worn by the East Asian Infantry before Feb 1901, but by infantry from Saxon companies (or B, W and B), in which case this photo shows a group of soldiers from different units put together.

Another curious feature of the original photograph is that while most of the men are wearing 1893 Dark Blue Litwekas, one is wearing a 1900 Khaki Drillichrock. This is the only time I've seen the Pickelhaube worn with a khaki uniform, interesting...

Cheers

Chris