Yugoslavia Conflict in Yugoslavia 1999

[Nick]

I have removed some threads from this post.

For everyone?s information if a thread is removed from a listing it is usually a temporary measure implemented by a moderator and subject to my review. In some rare cases for breaches of club rules a topic may be permanently be removed. However I like to give a measured response and more often than not a topic will be reposted after offending posts have been removed. I am not online 24 hours a day and it may be a while before a topic is reviewed.

I have removed some offending posts from this topic which were clearly becoming politically motivated. I am not sure that such a recent conflict can be objectively discusses without politics or tempers entering the fray.

I would also like to remind all members that the main focus of this forum is Militaria. We are here to discuss military collectables. I accept a understanding of the historical military background to such items is obviously of importance and an integral part of collecting experience. However this forum is not here to raise political objections about the rights or wrongs of military conflicts, nor is it designed to give an audience to persons trying to further their own political viewpoint or agenda.

[Ed_Haynes]

A measured and well-explained response, Nick. It is important for people to understand our forum's focus and the rules by which that focus is nurtured. It is also important to bear in mind that those applying the sometimes vague rules are a group of human beings with all the pressures and foibles that accompany that state.

(DISCLAIMER: I possess almost none of the divine powers to which Nick alludes, being a lowly worm of a creature in the greater food-chain of GMICdom.)

And, all, please be aware how very very dangerous it is ever to open a discussion of contemporary or near-contemporary conflicts, even in terms of our focus on medals and other militaria. All need to be especially careful when tap-dancing on that very thin ice.

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Nick,

many thanks for restoring our fruitful, scientific & peaceful discussion about NATO-combat-losses during operation "Allied Force" and for removing some inappropriate offences among GMIC-members , but keep your "moderator" a little bit more under control in such sensitive GMIC-sections, as Yugoslavia .

It's O.K., if a "moderator" temporarly removes a thread, which contains some offences towards other GMIC-members, for your review. That's a normal and correct way of handling such a platform in a peaceful way.

But it is not correct, if your "moderator" removes a whole and large thread completly without any notice, that this thread is removed temporarly for the chairman's review.

It is also not correct, if the same "moderator" removes my posting, where I had been asking you about the whole procedure.

That nasty incident, caused by your "moderator", has upset a large number of meritorious GMIC-members and "big" contributors to your club.

GMIC-Yugoslavia is a rather new section and grows in rapid pace: There is a hughe interest in ODM of that former state and also in the history behind these awards. GMIC-Yugoslavia attracts a wide range of "old" GMIC-members and created a respectful number of "new" GMIC-members.

Coming back to your statement: "We are here to discuss military collectables." I just want to remind you, that no other military conflict of former Yugoslavia - except WW II - "produced" so many orders & medals, as the last one in 1999: The operation "Allied Force". Even the rarest and most prestigeous YU-order, the "Order of Freedom", had been confered 2 times: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=19610 . The NATO-war-1999 represents also a large field for collectors of other militaria items, as relicts of US-aircrafts, cruise missiles, etc., as I showed in that thread: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=13964 .

So, operation "Allied Force" should have it's place at Gentleman's Military Interest Club, as all the Iraq-stuff and Middle-East-items have their place at your platform.

Dear Nick, GMIC is your legal property. So it is up to you, to kick out the YU-collectors and to add to the GMIC-coat of arms: "For the serious collector of military history - collectors with ties to former Yugoslavia please keep away." But I won't think, that this would be a very wise decision, even if some of your "moderators" might strongly support such a development .

"However this forum is not here to raise political objections about the rights or wrongs of military conflicts, nor is it designed to give an audience to persons trying to further their own political viewpoint or agenda." - excellent words, Nick, which I support 100 %. It's O.K. to keep out ethical or political questions from military platforms, but not such hard facts like: KIAs, damaged aircrafts, violations of international laws & agreements, etc., etc. If you want to keep out any scientific discussion out of GMIC, except such about the enamel of one medal or the content of gold of another medal, then GMIC will become rather boring within short time.

I hope, that GMIC-YU will keep on it's fruitful & peaceful development and such nasty incidents will not happen anymore.

I also want to remind some - rather "new" - members of GMIC, that other GMIC-members have to be treated with full respect, even if they post some stuff, which turns out - from the historians point of view - to be obsolete and wrong.

Best regards

Christian

I have removed some threads from this post.

For everyone?s information if a thread is removed from a listing it is usually a temporary measure implemented by a moderator and subject to my review. In some rare cases for breaches of club rules a topic may be permanently be removed. However I like to give a measured response and more often than not a topic will be reposted after offending posts have been removed. I am not online 24 hours a day and it may be a while before a topic is reviewed.

I have removed some offending posts from this topic which were clearly becoming politically motivated. I am not sure that such a recent conflict can be objectively discusses without politics or tempers entering the fray.

I would also like to remind all members that the main focus of this forum is Militaria. We are here to discuss military collectables. I accept a understanding of the historical military background to such items is obviously of importance and an integral part of collecting experience. However this forum is not here to raise political objections about the rights or wrongs of military conflicts, nor is it designed to give an audience to persons trying to further their own political viewpoint or agenda.

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Ed,

these are wise words .

Best regards

Christian

BTW: You are not the "lowly worm of a creature in the greater food-chain of GMICdom", but the #1 contributor to GMIC with more than 8.300 postings . GMIC without the expertise of Prof. Ed Haynes would represent a lesser phaleristic quality .

A measured and well-explained response, Nick. It is important for people to understand our forum's focus and the rules by which that focus is nurtured. It is also important to bear in mind that those applying the sometimes vague rules are a group of human beings with all the pressures and foibles that accompany that state.

(DISCLAIMER: I possess almost none of the divine powers to which Nick alludes, being a lowly worm of a creature in the greater food-chain of GMICdom.)

And, all, please be aware how very very dangerous it is ever to open a discussion of contemporary or near-contemporary conflicts, even in terms of our focus on medals and other militaria. All need to be especially careful when tap-dancing on that very thin ice.

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Christian

Such a casual remark as what you stated:

I also want to remind some - rather "new" - members of GMIC, that other GMIC-members have to be treated with full respect, even if they post some stuff, which turns out - from the historians point of view - to be obsolete and wrong.

really needs a explanation, would you care to name names and examples, if to contraversial here then please send by PM.

Thank you,

Kevin in Deva.

[Paul R]

Hi Christian,

The Moderator, Chris, is a grown man and combat veteran. He does not need to be "controlled".

It is our policy to make controversal(by that I mean threads that skirt along the boundries of the established rules) threads temporarly invisible if we feel that there is a need for review by the Chairman.

BTW, I think that I can speak for all the moderators when I say that there is no "Elite feeling" within the staff. It is not like we are getting paid, receiving free health care benefits, or retirement points. We are like you, simple collectors, who love the hobby and want to help others.

I think that this forum(The Republic of Yugoslavia: Militaria) has a lot of potential and would love to see it grow. Lets keep our focus on the militaria and history... not our feelings on the politics surrounding the events.

Thanks

Paul

[Nick]

This thread has run its course.

I will have the final word on this issue as I think it is my right to do so.

This issue has been discussed at length among the Club Staff and there is a general consensus of opinion among us on what is considered to be right and wrong for the good of GMIC.

What you percieve to be heavy handedness by certain moderators is actually an implementation of my instruction, so I have no issue with how this has been handled.

I am also realsitic enough to realise that military history is all fuelled by political events and that as such essentially politics cannot be avoided when discussing military history. But discussing recent or current events in an insensitive or subjective manner will lead to tensions, especially when there are members of this forum who had direct involvement with conflict from both sides of the fence.

Ed has summed it up very well in his previous post and on that note I close this topic.