My latest Bavarian M.V.O. Kreuz, I Class with Crown.

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Gents,

I recently obtained this beauty from a fellow member,

Many thanks to "Roeland"

Kevin in Deva

[Kev in Deva]

So the Bavarian M.V.O. Cross section of the collection looks like this now.

All I need to complete thi section is a late WW1 "Zinker" with Crown & Swords.

Kevin in Deva.

[Alex K]

Hi Kevin lovely example, nice growing family also

regards

Alex

edit

I've just noticed on the family picture that the one next to it has a different ribbon, or is it my eyes?

Edited August 13, 2007 by Alex K

[Mike Dwyer]

Really beautiful, Kev! Maybe someday I can afford one myself!

[Scott]

Very nice - congratulations!!

Scott

[Kev in Deva]

Hi Kevin lovely example, nice growing family also

regards

Alex

edit

I've just noticed on the family picture that the one next to it has a different ribbon, or is it my eyes?

Hallo Alex,

That one is on a piece of peacetime ribbon or in other words it has not got the thin black stripes the wartime ribbon has.

Its also unusual in that the reverse medalion is enameled as well!! Possibly a private made piece.

Kevin in Deva

[Kev in Deva]

This one can be classed as a rareity,

its an original Bavarian MVO Cross without swords

Kevin in Deva

[Guest Rick Research]

Ah, you've got some real classes there!

MVK1s-- ANY MVK1s-- are seriously undervalued by the Official Price Guides.

Ditto on the pre-1913 ones.

My pride and joy is this pair of M1913 (WW1) MVK1X with M1905 MVK2X--

Cost me the same for the ribbon bar as the medal bar did, to reunite them years apart.

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Rick,

you have a beautiful bar there

The only piece with regards my Bavarian MVO Crosses that has a maker mark is a

3 Form 1913 - 1921 which has the letter "D" on a sword tip.

I believe its for DESCHLER & SOHN of M?NCHEN - 9.

Kevin in Deva.

[Kev in Deva]

Some of my silver Bavarian M.V.O.Crosses in close up.

Kevin in Deva.

[Kev in Deva]

This one is on the very large medal bar and hard to picture!

Kevin in Deva

[Franken75]

Hello Gentlemen,

sorry but the MVK first Class with crown and swords which is shown here is an (without any doubt) modified third class with crown and swords made by Leser, only one little reason is that the belt buckle of the front emblem from an original first or second class would be never full enamelled. Look at the belt buckles of the two nice Original second classes with crown and X and with X shown by Kev( the two pieces was made by Gebr. Hemmerle after 1917). But also the the first class with swords from Kev is handycrafted in originality it was an normally third class made by Deschler, the third class wihout swords iin its originality was an third class with swords made by Leser.

Sorry for that bad news and please excuse my poor English I could explain better in German

Regards

[Mike Dwyer]

Kev,

I don't have a scan of the one full size MVK I own, but I do have this lovely mini-bar that has one on it.

[militaria0815]

Bad thing, Franken75 is absolutely right, sorry for Kevin. You should return the item.

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Gents

Sorry to say, I have no idea what Franken75 is talking about!!!

And would require some more opinions of members with regards this piece.

Also if he is making a reference as well, to the B.M.V.O. without swords,

there is no sign of any swords having been removed as the "teardrop" space,

where swords are located is perfect and shows no sign of tampering with!!

Kevin in Deva.

[Josef Rietveld]

Hi Kev, what franken75 means is that by original issued pieces the small gap between beltbuckle and belt arround the center medaillon has been NEVER enameled. have a look at your second calss pieces. that is what i have been told by experienced collectors. franken75 correct me if that is wrong.

regards

haynau

Edited August 14, 2007 by haynau

[Kev in Deva]

Hi Kev, what franken75 means is that by original issued pieces the small gap between beltbuckle and belt arround the center medaillon has been NEVER enameled. have a look at your second calss pieces. that is what i have been told by experienced collectors. franken75 correct me if that is wrong.

regards

haynau

Hallo haynau

thank you for taking time to comment and post a picture, unlike some who offer a comment but post no pictures.

The B.M.V.O. Cross was never officialy issued with double enameled medalions either, but they exsist, are we to take these are fake or reproduction, or private purchase??

Kevin in Deva

[Franken75]

Hello Haynau,

yes you know what I am talking about, militaria0815 has also my opinion because he also collects Bavarian Orders for a very long time and knows well about the bad things which are since twenty years on the market(first flea market later Internet),

Kev I?m sorry that you don`t understand what I?am talking about you can think what you want but I only wanted to help to stop copys and manipulations going around. The things I have written about these MVKs is not only a Opinion it is fact . The MVK from Haynau is a very nice early(1914-16) piece with an three part center Medallion made of pure gold.

[Franken75]

Hallo haynau

thank you for taking time to comment and post a picture, unlike some who offer a comment but post no pictures.

The B.M.V.O. Cross was never officialy issued with double enameled medalions either, but they exsist, are we to take these are fake or reproduction, or private purchase??

Kevin in Deva

I think the " unlike some who offers a comment" means me, why should I post a picture when you have posted your nice Original second classes MVKs look at these ones, look at the enamel and you will see what I mean.

It is correct that privat purchased MVKs from the 20s with double enameled medalions exist(made by Godet) but your first classes are manipulated third classes.

[Kev in Deva]

I think the " unlike some who offers a comment" means me, why should I post a picture when you have posted your nice Original second classes MVKs look at these ones, look at the enamel and you will see what I mean.

It is correct that privat purchased MVKs from the 20s with double enameled medalions exist(made by Godet) but your first classes are manipulated third classes.

Dear Sir,

it is a time honoured method, when posting an opinion to back up the claims with pictures, and to state the source of your knowledge. (Refference books, Medal Decrees & Articles etc..etc..,

otherwise it remains only an unsupported, speculative opinion.

In my reference section of photographs of medals (which I freely admit to copying off the net for reference purposes) I have come across pictures of both the BMVO Cross "buckle area" looking free of enamel and with enamel.

Can you offer any proof that all B.M.V.O. Crosses / pieces that do not conform to your strict guidelines are in fact:

A. FAKE.

B. MODERN REPRODUCTION.

C. PERIOD PRIVATE MADE PIECES.

I am always willing to learn about items in my collection but not just upon say-so.

Yours, Kevin A. Ryan, (Kevin in Deva).

[Franken75]

Sorry for waisting your time

Best Regards

[Kev in Deva]

And thank you for your opinions, on my items.

mfg, Kevin in Deva.

[Kev in Deva]

A BMVO Cross, III Class with swords, and the late War Zink Version.

The Swords on the Zinker are in Silver!*

* EDIT, after the below posting by Sachaw, i tested with a magnet and found them to be Iron

with Silver Gilt / plate, many thanks for the tip Sachaw!!

Kevin in Deva

Edited August 14, 2007 by Kev in Deva

[saschaw]

The Swords on the Zinker are in Silver!

They should be iron(!), and I'm pretty sure they are, please use a magnet to check this. A very nice example, but with your Ist classes, I' with franken75, haynau and militaria0815. These three are real experts, and I have no doubt when they say something like this ...

Most Ist classes offered are indeed fakes, eve at honest salers. That's hard, but the truth.

Mike Dwyer, your miniatur is in my humble opinion not a 1st but a gilt 3rd class, though a very nice mini medal bar. Haynau's 1st class is a example. Josef, I didn't know you have one?!

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Saschaw

thank you for the information with regards the swords on the zinker,

I have applied a magnet and it sticks so I will edit my post accordingly!!

See! by the advice of the magnet test you offer a way to verify what you stated in your post.

With regards the posts by "franken75", "militaria0815", and "haynau":

I, personaly feel when posting a comment, with regards any piece of militaria, it has to be backed up with evidence*.

Its very easy to say "Its a fake," "It is a repro" or "that is what i have been told by experienced collectors."

But you have to offer some proof, thats why people write reference books with regards various items in the militaria

collecting comunity.

If everybody were to attach comments without offering proof of their beliefs, then how could we ever

hope to identify any pieces / items.

* by evidence I mean written documented proof from studies made of the subject in hand, this being an online forum I have no idea who these people are or where they have gained their expertese from!! Even more so when they have just joined or posted very little on the forum.

Kevin in Deva.