Help Needed with Imperial Bar

[Stu W]

Hello guys,

I am currently reviewing this bar with purchase in mind. This era is all new to me so any comments, no matter how basic, will be of help to me.

I have five concerns:

1. Medal and ribbon condition is not even. Some near mint and some well worn. I guess he could have earned them at different times and had the bar assembled later but I don't know.

2. Metal backing plate has a heavy white powder over it. Corrosion?

3. I have been told that a Lubeck with RED feet is authentic war time and that BLACK feet, as this one has, could be either between conflicts or post 45 even. True?

4. I would have expected to see the Honor Cross almost pristine as it wasn't given out till long after the others yet it is the most heavily worn.

5. FA looks like it might have a new paint coat.

As this is a learning experience for me I am going to post 7 pictures.

Thanks in advance,

Stu

Edited September 9, 2007 by Stu W

[Stu W]

[Stu W]

[Stu W]

[Stu W]

[Stu W]

[Stu W]

[Stu W]

[Stogieman]

The white powder is corrosion of the zinc backing plate. Someone let the bar get wet. Zinc is a relatively unstable element and will continue to bond with free hydrogen in the air. Eventually, the backing plate of this bar will totally "decompose". There seems to be no rhyme or reason. Some formulations of this metal will, some don't. I am unsure as to whether it's an additional additive in the manufacturing process that makes this happen.

With the exception of the honor cross, the wear seems consistent on the other pieces. The ribbon on the Brunswick cross looks strange.

The quality of these images makes it difficult to really assess the bar. If you're under the gun, I'd pass. Barring that, wait for Rick Research to check in on it today.

[Stogieman]

PS: The Honor Cross might be a replacement.

[David M]

Should it be genuine, you maybe want to know the L?beck hanseatic rolls are currently worked on. I don't know about the availability by heart, but there is a thread called "Rolls" which could tell you that, should you be interested in the possibility of identification.

[Schießplatzmeister]

Hello All:

The War Honor Cross looks like it was possibly harshly cleaned to remove rust (I think that I see pitting on the right arm of the cross). Of course these crosses are usually found struck in steel which was bronzed. Thus, the strange look of the cross (the shiny steel can be seen showing in places through the matte bronze finish). Such corrosion would be consistent with the "lovely" zinc oxidation bloom that has infected the backing plate. This group was probably stored in someone's basement for a few years after Opa went to Valhalla.

Best regards,

"SPM"

p.s.: Oh yes, I see rust spots on the War Honor Cross ribbon. This group was definately exposed to a bit of moisture!

Edited September 9, 2007 by Schie?platzmeister

[Guest Rick Research]

Those ARE red feet on the L?beck.

The Honor Cross is less icky looking than the Brunswick Cross, which should be a deep chocolate brown color, not honey-gold. The only post-WW1 replacement there I'd say is the Brunswick cross.

I agree with what has been said about this having been soggy damp at some point and harshly cleaned. That could account for the yucky looking Oldenburg finish as well-- but then those were so "low bidder" to begin with that they are often found apparently touched up by the wearers. Black painted cast iron was NOT a good idea. Though that one looks as if it might be one of the nicer bronze ones-- still paint finished low-bid work.

If it had been stored carefully and treated better, this would have been a very nice bar.

[Stu W]

Thanks to each of you for your assistance.

Regards,

Stu

[Wild Card]

Gentlemen,

To expand on a couple of points already raised, I would like to direct your attention to the Brunswick war merit cross. I have had problems posting pictures lately, but hopefully below you will see a cross virtually identical to the one shown on the bar (above). If the picture doesn?t stick, please take my word for the fact that mine is, as I said, virtually identical except that it is quite a bit darker in color and the highlights which show the bright yellow of the underlying bronze.

My point is that I would venture that the example on the bar fell victim to the same scrubbing frenzy as the War Honor Cross. As a matter of fact, it is not unlikely that this incident introduced the (water) moisture which is causing the disintegration of the zinc backing plate.

Also, Stogieman, I agree that somehow the Brunswick ribbon doesn?t look quite right. I can not explain it just a feeling about the size and proportion of the yellow and blue side stripes.

Best wishes Gentlemen,

Wild Card

Edited September 11, 2007 by Wild Card