France Legion d'honneur

[Roeland]

Hello,

I would like to know if anybody can give me information about the Legion d'honneur.

I would like to know the sizes of the grades from this order and how much of them are awared.

thank you for the information! any other information or remarks are also welcome.

kind regards,

Roeland

[Veteran]

Hello Roeland

I would not like to sound discourageing, but the answers to your two simple questions would certainly take volumes.

The Legion of Honor has been the premier order of France for a little over 200 years, and it has recognised outstanding services from all walks of national life, civilian as much as military. Several hundreds of thousands have been awarded, possibly over a million; not counting the many awards to foreigners.

Furthermore, the badges have changed with every new regime. The XIXth century saw 2 Republics, 2 different kinds of Kingdoms and 2 Empire. The XXth Century added 2 more Republics. The type of insignia have also varied during all this time.

Despite the huge numbers of awards, bringing together a full collection of all types in all grades is a feat very few collectors ever managed to achieve. And that is why so many people collect them. You can pick up a good Chevalier of the 3rd Republic for 30 Euro and and many Commanders' badges older than 1870 will run in thousands. For the sake of simplicity, I will skipp the earlier breast stars and Grand Cross badges.

I am fully aware of the fact that I am not answering your questions. Just trying to explain why. Unfortunately, I don't know of a really good modern book in English on the subject. But a number of good recent books in French have been published, due to the celebrations of the Second Centannary of the Order. I would suggest that you try to buy one with good illustrations. But those will not mention numbers of awards.

Best regards

Veteran

[Ed_Haynes]

Add to this the fact that they have been made by a range of independent jewelers, in all the marvelous diversity of sizes and designs that their commercially driven little brains could devise. A lifetime's study and, as 'Veteran' says, at least one lifetime's collecting agenda.

Until I stopped adding to it from the M&E sales, we were assembling a nice set of images over at the OMSA database.

[Hendrik]

Hello Roeland,

You may be interested to know about this book :

"De eervolle onderscheidingen van de verzameling Brouwet" by one of the forum's members, Guy Deploige. The larger part of this book deals with the collection of L?gion d'Honneur awards collected by Mr. Brouwet and which are currently held by the Belgian Army Museum in Brussels (not on display though !). It does contain measurements of the various items. Superior photographs too and I can strongly recommend it as it's price of 40 Euros is quite reasonable in view of the quality of the book.

More info and "how to order it" can be found at : http://www.klm-mra.be/klm-new/nederlands/b...t_nl/index.html

Cheers,

Hendrik

[g_deploige]

And Roeland

The book is in Frenc AND IN DUTCH

Guy

[Roeland]

thanks for the answers!

So if I understand correct, there are so many variations and private purchases that we can't give a specific measurement for the order and it has been decorated a lot so you can't give a specific number.

I'll sure buy the book this month!

I already have a knight, bought it for 30 Euro a while ago, this week I've bought a commanders cross 1870 type for 200 euro.

[LeoLinz]

Dear Gentlemen,

perhaps someone can answer my question although this is an older thread. France orders are not my main collecting area but I'm interested in the "Legion of Honor" becaus it had so much influence in nearly all european (or worldwide) orders.

But my problem, as a newbie in this topic is, what are the main distinctive features between the different versions. I think the actual version is Mod. 9 (please correct me if I'm wrong).

I saw a few bijous and they had a different crown, or a different wreath, but I don't know are these different versions or did they just come from a different manufacturer.

I would be glad if someone could tell me how to identify the main versions between 1802 and now.

Thank's for all your efforts!

Best regards,

Leo

[Bison]

It is a huuuuge question. Even in the French collectors community, we are still not all agree upon how to classify the different models.

Anyway, there are different main types which are regulated by texts and laws along the different French regimes since the Napoleonic Empire. The imagination and creativity of the different manufacturers did the rest!

To have a first idea, without entering esoteric details, and if you can read a little bit French, you can download some useful basic docs from the Musée de la Légion d'honneur website:

http://www.musee-legiondhonneur.fr/mlh/pdf/9212_fiche-01-LH-empire-BD.pdf

http://www.musee-legiondhonneur.fr/mlh/pdf/9213_fiche-11-LH-Rest-Sd-Emp-BD.pdf

http://www.musee-legiondhonneur.fr/mlh/pdf/9214_fiche-08-LH-Rep-BD.pdf

Regards

Bison

Edited November 7, 2013 by Bison

[LeoLinz]

Dear Bison,

thanks a lot for this informations! I had to learn french in school, but it's a long time ago and I'm afraid, that my French hasn't improved itself!

But I'll still try to get through this informative pages.

Did I understand right that there are 8 main types of the order?

Thank you and best regards,

Leo

[Bison]

Hi Leo,

In fact, there is a strange way of determining the types of the Legion d'honneur amongst the French collectors.

The first 4 main types are for the 1st Empire. They are determined by technical and embelishment improvements. No official texts are defining these changes.

The others are determined by the decrees and texts the following regimes made to 'adapt' and change the insigna.

Then you have :

- the type of the 1st Restauration

- the type of the Second Restauration

- the type of the Monarchie de Juillet

- the type of the Second Republic

- the type of the Présidence (very close to the 4th type of the 1st Empire)

- the type of the Second Empire

- the type of the Third Republic

- the type of the Fourth Republic

- the type of the Fifth Republic

Therefore, we have 13 main types of the Légion d'honneur.

Yours

Bison

[LeoLinz]

Hi Bison,

I didn't know that this topic is so huge and complicated. As nearly totally new in french awards and in the Legion of Honour especially I had no idea.

I hope this doesn't start to annoy you, but here's what I found out and how I came to the number of 8 different main types (chronological):

- cross without crown and without the small pearls on tops, Napoleon I. on Avers, imp. eagle on Revers

- cross with imperial crown and pearls on tops, Napoleon I. on Avers, imp. eagle on Revers

- cross with royal crown and three fleurs-de-lys on the Revers, Henry IV. on Avers

- cross with royal crown and two french flags on the Revers, Henry IV. on Avers

- cross without crown and Napoleon I. on Avers, Revers ? (the two flags again?)

- cross wih imperial crown, Napoleon I. on Avers and imp. eagle on Revers

- cross with wreath, Marianne on Avers and the Date 1870, two french flags on the Revers

- cross with wreath, Marianne on Avers and a little star where 1870 stood before, two french flags on the Revers and the Date "29 Floreal An X"

So the "original" issue by Napoleon I., where I found only two types has four types, but where do I have to put the 13th type, which is missing in my list?

Thank you for your efforts!

All the Best,

Leo

[Bison]

Hi Leo,

Here are my comments on your list :

- cross without crown and without the small pearls on tops, Napoleon I EMP. DES FRANCAIS. on Avers, imp. eagle on Revers, no balls at the edges of the cross, this is the 1st Type

- cross with a small imperial crown with 12 branches and pearls on tops fixed or articulated with the cross, Napoleon I. on Avers, imp. eagle on Revers,no balls at the edges of the cross, this is the 2nd Type

- cross with a bigger imperial crown with 8 branches and pearls on tops articulated with the cross, Napoleon I. on Avers, imp. eagle on Revers, no balls at the edges of the cross, this is the 3rd Type

- cross with an imperial crown with 8 branches and pearls on tops articulated with the cross, Napoleon I. on Avers, imp. eagle on Revers, with balls at the edges of the cross, this is the 4th Type

- cross with royal crown and three fleurs-de-lys under a royal crown on the Revers, Henry IV ROI DE FRANCE ET DE NAVARRE on Avers, this is the 5th Type (1st Restauration)

- cross with royal crown and three fleurs-de-lys on the Revers, Henry IV ROI DE FRANCE ET DE NAVARRE on Avers, this is the 6th Type (2nd Restauration)

- cross with royal crown and two french flags on the Revers, Henry IV ROI DE FRANCE on Avers, this is the 7th Type (Monarchie de Juillet)

- cross without crown and Napoleon I. BONAPARTE 1er CONSUL 19 MAI 1802 on Avers, Revers ? (the two flags again?) yes ! this is the 8th Type (2nd Republic)

- cross wih imperial crown, Napoleon I EMP. DES FRANCAIS on Avers and imp. eagle on Revers, this is the 9th Type, very similar to the 4th Type (Présidence)

- cross wih imperial crown with small eagles, Napoleon I EMPEREUR DES FRANCAIS on Avers and imp. eagle on Revers, this is the 10th Type (Second Republic)

- cross with wreath, Marianne CERES / REPUBLIQUE FRANCAISE on Avers and the Date 1870, two french flags on the Revers, this is the 11th Type. (Third Republic)

- cross with wreath, Marianne CERES / REPUBLIQUE FRANCAISE on Avers and little stars where 1870 stood, two french flags on the Revers and the Date "29 Floreal An X", this is the 12th Type (Fourth Republic)

- cross with wreath, CERES / REPUBLIQUE FRANCAISE on Avers and a little 'flowers' instead of little stars , two french flags on the Revers and the Date "29 Floreal An X", this is the 13th Type (Fifth Republic)

And here we are !

You can find here, on the Royal Army Museum of Brussels web site an interesting (but not complete) illustration :

http://www.klm-mra.be/klm-new/engels/collecties/OMD-LDH/index.html

Yours

Bison

Edited November 14, 2013 by Bison

[LeoLinz]

Dear Bison,

thank you a lot! You made my day.

With these informations I'll start searching for further informations not completely from scratch!

Many, many thanks and have a nice week!

Yours,

Leo

[pinpon590]

Hi !

I can add some pictures for the 1830-1871 period :

Hi Leo,

Here are my comments on your list :

- cross with royal crown and two french flags on the Revers, Henry IV ROI DE FRANCE on Avers, this is the 7th Type (Monarchie de Juillet)

- cross without crown and Napoleon I. BONAPARTE 1er CONSUL 19 MAI 1802 on Avers, Revers ? (the two flags again?) yes ! this is the 8th Type (2nd Republic)

- cross wih imperial crown, Napoleon I EMP. DES FRANCAIS on Avers and imp. eagle on Revers, this is the 9th Type, very similar to the 4th Type (Présidence)

- cross wih imperial crown with small eagles, Napoleon I EMPEREUR DES FRANCAIS on Avers and imp. eagle on Revers, this is the 10th Type (Second Republic EMPIRE)

- cross with wreath, Marianne CERES / REPUBLIQUE FRANCAISE on Avers and the Date 1870, two french flags on the Revers, this is the 11th Type. (Third Republic)

And here we are !

You can find here, on the Royal Army Museum of Brussels web site an interesting (but not complete) illustration :

http://www.klm-mra.be/klm-new/engels/collecties/OMD-LDH/index.html

Yours

Bison

And whe can find a lot of variations : this kind for example... A second Republic cross, with imperial eagle on reverse (but with the wrong inscription...

Greetings !

Edited November 21, 2013 by pinpon590

[LeoLinz]

Dear pinpon590,

thanks a lot for showing these great photos! I'm getting a little confused every time I read more, addicted to this huge and endless topic.

But it's very interesting and awsome!

Thank you again and best regards,

Leo

[achern]

Gents, I am looking for an original ribbon bar to the Legion d'honneur for the grade of Commandeur, with the red rosette and silver wings. Does anyone know where I may buy one or two of these please?

achern

[Bison]

Easy :

http://www.compagnie-des-uniformes.com/fr/uniforme-gendarmerie-tenue/f1-270-medailles-attributs-decorations/f2-395-barettes-decoration-sur-epingle/f3-424-ordre-de-la-legion-d-honneur/f4-426-legion-d-honneur-commandeur/id-23263-barrette-decoration-sur-epingle-commandeur-legion-d-honneur

Cheers

Bison

[achern]

This is just what I need, thanks for the link. There is just one small problem - they don't ship outside France! Anyone from France here able to help me out?

[Peter J]

Wow, that's a myriad of versions! Might this be a 2nd class 10th type?

[rocketscientist]

Here's my 4th Class Legion d'Honneur for Officers, for your comments.

When I purchased it, long ago, the seller told me it is an example of the 4th Republic version. From the information I have got in this forum, I would say this is not true and it should be from the 5th Republic.

I also doubt the originality of this specimen, due to the very poor manufacturing not as good as I would expect for the Country's highest Order.